How did anyone survive before welfare? Through the charity of others. But now that it is a government right, too many people are abusing it. It needs to be overhauled. Not eliminated, as I understand there are tons of legitimate persons who need assistance. But there are too many, and I see them everyday, who live off the 'draw' and teach their children how to get 'on the draw'. Many have never worked a day in their life and have nothing wrong with them besides a terminal case of being too lazy to support themselves.

 

First of all, the ones who "live off the draw" are lazy, and stupid. Secondly, you can only be on welfare for a certain period of time now, and you are off. Thirdly, most people on welfare are on welfare and then right back off. They repeat that cycle for a long time.

 

Some on welfare might not have worked, but a lot of people on welfare work, and still can't get out of poverty.

"The welfare state is not really about the welfare of the masses. It is about the ego of the elites."

 

Thomas Sowell

 

 

Forced charity by government is not voluntary, therefore is not an example of Christ's love. It really is as simple as that.

 

Conservative Christians give exponentially more to charitable causes than any other group on the face of the Earth, as has been pointed out in this forum time after tiresome time.

 

:thumb:

 

 

Ace said...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take care of the poor, well wait a minute, only those poor who deserve it."?

 

I could easily counter with...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take people's money away from them and give it to those with less."

 

It works both ways.

 

Christians are not against helping the poor. That's a myth.

:thumb:

 

 

Ace said...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take care of the poor, well wait a minute, only those poor who deserve it."?

 

I could easily counter with...

 

Where does Jesus say "we should take people's money away from them and give it to those with less."

 

It works both ways.

 

Christians are not against helping the poor. That's a myth.

 

I agree, but I think that certain groups of Christians consider their voting behavior to be part of their faith, that they will be judged by God as being better for voting against gay marriage, abortion, or for assistance to the poor, what have you. If it were such an important part of Jesus' teachings, then why did he not simply advocate a theocracy? From my reading and understanding, I have a hard time believing that God values our system of government and voting behavior.

I agree, but I think the contention of the original poster is that certain groups of Christians consider their voting behavior to be part of their faith, that they will be judged by God as being better for voting against gay marriage, abortion, or for assistance to the poor, what have you. If it were such an important part of Jesus's teachings, then why did he not simply advocate a theocracy? From my reading and understanding, I have a hard time believing that God values our system of government and voting behavior.

 

I don't disagree with that. I feel strongly that some Christians are far too involved in politics.

 

I do not like the fact that "evangelical/conservative Christians" main contribution to society seems to be that their sheer numbers make them a powerful voting bloc. When Christians have, at any point, tried to change or transform society in their own power and numbers, Christ tends to get left out of the equation and the result is not good.

Here you go. George Will article, describing research published and performed by Syracuse University.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

Thank you Hearsay. :thumb: It's been posted before; I'm surprised UKPat didn't see it.

First of all, the ones who "live off the draw" are lazy, and stupid. Secondly, you can only be on welfare for a certain period of time now, and you are off. Thirdly, most people on welfare are on welfare and then right back off. They repeat that cycle for a long time.

 

Some on welfare might not have worked, but a lot of people on welfare work, and still can't get out of poverty.

 

Trust me, there are other ways around the system, and I see them everyday and have for years. They somehow find a way to draw a check every month, and have for years. There are loopholes in the system, and many are just smart enough to find them.

 

I have no problem helping those folks who don't have the ability to work or are actually trying to make their life better. But if you think there aren't lifetime recipients 'on the draw', you need to look around a little more.

 

The government has created a dependent class that didn't exist before and we may be too far gone to change that now.

I agree, but I think that certain groups of Christians consider their voting behavior to be part of their faith, that they will be judged by God as being better for voting against gay marriage, abortion, or for assistance to the poor, what have you. If it were such an important part of Jesus' teachings, then why did he not simply advocate a theocracy? From my reading and understanding, I have a hard time believing that God values our system of government and voting behavior.

 

Just for the record nothing I personally do will ever earn me a place in heaven. The forgiveness of my sins by the blood of Christ paid my debt in full. I will llive eternally with Him because His righteousness delivered me, I have no righteousness of my own apart from God. The reason I vote for the candidates that most closely align with Judeo-Christian values is because I desire to honor the One who gave His all for me. I love Him because He first loved me, not the other way around.

I don't disagree with that. I feel strongly that some Christians are far too involved in politics.

 

I do not like the fact that "evangelical/conservative Christians" main contribution to society seems to be that their sheer numbers make them a powerful voting bloc. When Christians have, at any point, tried to change or transform society in their own power and numbers, Christ tends to get left out of the equation and the result is not good.

 

Where do you get that? Why should Christians not be allowed to participate in politics just like any other group? Sounds like you want to disenfranchise Christians because they vote opposite what you do. Sounds like you believe freedom of speech, assembly, etc. should not include Christians. That is pretty sad.

Here you go. George Will article, describing research published and performed by Syracuse University.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

 

Excellent article. Thanks for posting!

 

So this is saying that those 'small town folk who cling to their religon and guns' actually give more to charity than those who look down on them? So religous people give more than those who are not religous? Very interesting. Not surprising, but interesting.

Where do you get that? Why should Christians not be allowed to participate in politics just like any other group? Sounds like you want to disenfranchise Christians because they vote opposite what you do. Sounds like you believe freedom of speech, assembly, etc. should not include Christians. That is pretty sad.

 

I think you misread. 5wide is Christian and fairly conservative. I think what he implied was that a lot of Christians tend to forget Christ's message when they undertake political behavior, and I tend to agree. I think that is all that was meant.

I think you misread. 5wide is Christian and fairly conservative. I think what he implied was that a lot of Christians tend to forget Christ's message when they undertake political behavior, and I tend to agree. I think that is all that was meant.

 

Perhaps I did. If so, I do apologize. It just seems that many want to silence conservatives (in particular evangelicals) and think they don't belong in the political arena. If we act passively then we cannot hope to ever affect change in areas that we feel are a detriment to our society. Perhaps I am becoming a bit "gun shy" and I am sorry if I jumped to conclusions.

I don't disagree with that. I feel strongly that some Christians are far too involved in politics.

 

I do not like the fact that "evangelical/conservative Christians" main contribution to society seems to be that their sheer numbers make them a powerful voting bloc. When Christians have, at any point, tried to change or transform society in their own power and numbers, Christ tends to get left out of the equation and the result is not good.

 

Apparently you didn't read the link which shows that they give more to charity than those who look down on them. I guess that doesn't count as a contribution to society.

 

The youth group at my church goes to poor areas every summer and helps to build houses for those in need. I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Many non profit community service organizations are/were established by churches, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Many homeless shelters, including the one in my hometown, were established by Christians, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

My church also puts together Thanksgiving baskets for needy families and delivers them every year. We also adopt needy families for Christmas and deliver food, clothing and toys for the young children at the homes, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Several members of my church work at the homeless shelter, do prison ministries, visit the sick and dying every week. But I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

I do not see where Christ is left out of those actions and I believe he is pleased with the efforts. And this goes on at thousands of churches around the country. But since the media doesn't tell you what they do, I guess that doesn't count. They aren't looking for publicity for their acts, they are looking to help those less fortunate than themselves.

 

I don't see a problem with Christians voicing their concerns about the issues of the day just like those who are not Christians are allowed to do.

Perhaps I did. If so, I do apologize. It just seems that many want to silence conservatives and think they don't belong in the political arena. If we act passively then we cannot hope to ever affect change in areas that we feel are a detriment to our society. Perhaps I am becoming a bit "gun shy" and I am sorry if I jumped to conclusions.

 

I agree with you about that. We are called to live in this world but not be of this world, and where the political arena falls into that spectrum can be difficult to ascertain.

Perhaps I did. If so, I do apologize. It just seems that many want to silence conservatives (in particular evangelicals) and think they don't belong in the political arena. If we act passively then we cannot hope to ever affect change in areas that we feel are a detriment to our society. Perhaps I am becoming a bit "gun shy" and I am sorry if I jumped to conclusions.

 

That's because you were clinging to your religon and your guns.

Trust me, there are other ways around the system, and I see them everyday and have for years. They somehow find a way to draw a check every month, and have for years. There are loopholes in the system, and many are just smart enough to find them.

 

I have no problem helping those folks who don't have the ability to work or are actually trying to make their life better. But if you think there aren't lifetime recipients 'on the draw', you need to look around a little more.

 

The government has created a dependent class that didn't exist before and we may be too far gone to change that now.

 

What loopholes are you speaking of? Do you know of them?