Just for the record nothing I personally do will ever earn me a place in heaven. The forgiveness of my sins by the blood of Christ paid my debt in full. I will llive eternally with Him because His righteousness delivered me, I have no righteousness of my own apart from God. The reason I vote for the candidates that most closely align with Judeo-Christian values is because I desire to honor the One who gave His all for me. I love Him because He first loved me, not the other way around.

 

Deleted

Edited October 22, 200817 yr by Hatz
Hearsay had already expressed my thoughts.

Where do you get that? Why should Christians not be allowed to participate in politics just like any other group? Sounds like you want to disenfranchise Christians because they vote opposite what you do. Sounds like you believe freedom of speech, assembly, etc. should not include Christians. That is pretty sad.

 

I don't think he says anything about Christians not participating. I believe 5Wide is pointing out that there is difference between participation and crusades. One holds a powerful influence and the other tends to burn the wheat with the tares on occasion.

I agree with you about that. We are called to live in this world but not be of this world, and where the political arena falls into that spectrum can be difficult to ascertain.

 

Truer words were never spoken.

 

I always go back to the Lukan passage of the Temptations. (in the Wilderness, not the Motown Group.) The Devil had all the world and it's powers ready at Jesus' disposal for a little lip service from him. Jesus rejected the notion that the kingdom building was political or worldly power. Sometimes that gets lost in Christian culture be that from the Right side of the viewpoint or the Left side of the viewpoint.

That's because you were clinging to your religon and your guns.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

This was my thought in the thread asking about Obama and no one seemed to really want to answer it. Why are most Conservative Christian's overly obsessed with things like abortion and gay marriage at the expense of things like helping the poor.

 

One of the biggest things we as Christians can do is help those on this earth. In Mathew 25 Jesus said "how you treat the least of these is how you treat me." It just seems to me it is for God to judge individuals on their homosexuality or abortions. But it is the responsibility of us Christians to help those who can't help themselves. Love and service to me should be the main focus of Christians not judgment. Remember Jesus served others around him and hung with some who were considered the worst of the worst as far as sinners go of the day. But he loved them just same and did his best to serve them and better their condition. Why should we be so quick to judge others, that is for God. However, what is for us is to serve others and help the helpless.

 

Please explain 2 Thessalonians 3

Warning Against Idleness

6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us. 7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

11We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 12Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. 13And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right.

 

14If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

 

My view is that yes, we should help those that are truly NOT ABLE TO HELP THEMSELVES. That does not constitute many that our government helps.

 

 

Secondly, does the Bible and Jesus call for the Church to help these people or the government?

It isn't, but how many conservatives are for the expansion of social services and welfare? I doubt HT721 is making a direct correlation between the two subjects.

 

Does the Bible command the Church or the government to take care of the poor?

It's very hard for people on welfare to escape poverty. However, without welfare, would they be able to survive?

 

Yeah, they would.

 

It is called getting a job and working.

Apparently you didn't read the link which shows that they give more to charity than those who look down on them. I guess that doesn't count as a contribution to society.

 

The youth group at my church goes to poor areas every summer and helps to build houses for those in need. I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Many non profit community service organizations are/were established by churches, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Many homeless shelters, including the one in my hometown, were established by Christians, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

My church also puts together Thanksgiving baskets for needy families and delivers them every year. We also adopt needy families for Christmas and deliver food, clothing and toys for the young children at the homes, but I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

Several members of my church work at the homeless shelter, do prison ministries, visit the sick and dying every week. But I guess that doesn't count as contributing to society.

 

I do not see where Christ is left out of those actions and I believe he is pleased with the efforts. And this goes on at thousands of churches around the country. But since the media doesn't tell you what they do, I guess that doesn't count. They aren't looking for publicity for their acts, they are looking to help those less fortunate than themselves.

 

I don't see a problem with Christians voicing their concerns about the issues of the day just like those who are not Christians are allowed to do.

 

That's an excellent point and one certainly worth noting. Today's media rarely brings attention to "good" news...consequently the view of various people or groups gets skewed.

 

And you really didn't need to go off on a tirade. I'm well aware that there are numerous Christians who do many, many things (large and small) to help our society. Just pointing out that some people get too wrapped up in the world of politics and the results are sometimes regrettable.

Where do you get that? Why should Christians not be allowed to participate in politics just like any other group? Sounds like you want to disenfranchise Christians because they vote opposite what you do. Sounds like you believe freedom of speech, assembly, etc. should not include Christians. That is pretty sad.

 

I doubt the majority of Christians vote opposite of me.

I doubt the majority of Christians vote opposite of me.

 

I doubt that many of the people that call themselves Christians in this country have their names really written in the Book of the Lamb irregardless of who they are voting for.

 

Scripture shows us that many will call Jesus' name and he will say he does not know them.

Yeah, they would.

 

It is called getting a job and working.

 

What if they are already working two jobs and can barely make it on that plus welfare? It's not as easy as you think to make it out of poverty.

What if they are already working two jobs and can barely make it on that plus welfare? It's not as easy as you think to make it out of poverty.

Depends on the circumstances, how many kids they have, how many parents, what do they spend their money on, etc...

I doubt the majority of Christians vote opposite of me.

 

Don't know if you read my apology earlier but obviously I misread the post. I said that I had become a little "gun shy" and another poster said that was because I was "clinging to my guns and my religion" LOL Again, sorry for the earlier outburst. :thumb:

What if they are already working two jobs and can barely make it on that plus welfare? It's not as easy as you think to make it out of poverty.

 

I am sorry where are we promised an EASY life?

It took my parents 30-40 years to get out of it.

My dad worked 73 days straight of 12 hour day shifts.

Please don't tell me I cannot appreciate how hard it was for him.

 

They set a role model for me to get out of it so that I would NOT have t do what they had to do.

 

Too many parents sit at home today, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer, watching their satellite and eagerly accept the checks from the government and they too are being role models for their children.

 

I deal with it 188 days a year.

I suggest reading "What's the Matter with Kansas". Very instructive.

 

A great book... Have you read Thomas Franks new book "Wrecking Crew."