Reading what you suggest I would have to go through if I was in that position, I wouldn't come forward and have to live through all that mess for what would seem a lengthy time.

 

Come forward and have people ripping me a part on Internet forums like BGP, doesn't sound like a situation I would come forward and put myself and my family (teenager children having to read about what a horrible person I am from that school's supporters)

 

Come forward and hear people on the radio and television and talk about what my ulterior motives supposedly are and what a horrible person I am.

 

All for something that really doesn't matter.

 

Yeah, sounds like we would have a rush of people coming forward to be ripped apart.

 

Just like we have a lack of good candidates for President because of how they are going to be ripped apart in the media, I think you see people not coming forward because simply it isn't worth it.

 

First of all, from what I understand, the KHSAA keeps a lot of things in its investigation extremely confidential. So if you were a witness, my guess is that no one other than the KHSAA would even learn your identity unless the school or coach ended up taking the KHSAA to court, which could of course happen.

 

Second of all, how can you honestly say "all for something that really doesn't matter". You know I have a lot of respect for you, but I find it remarkable that you could be opposed to illegal recruiting on one hand, yet say it really doesn't matter? I truly hope that I'm taking that statement out of the context you intended.

 

Finally, like is the case with many other things, it takes courage to do the right thing. Whether that's preaching the Good Lord's teachings or reporting coaches that are illegally recruiting. My guess is that the way you've raised your teenage children, they would not only understand, but respect you even more for doing the right thing.

First of all, from what I understand, the KHSAA keeps a lot of things in its investigation extremely confidential. So if you were a witness, my guess is that no one other than the KHSAA would even learn your identity unless the school or coach ended up taking the KHSAA to court, which could of course happen.

In today's world it is extremely hard for anything to stay quiet.

 

 

Second of all, how can you honestly say "all for something that really doesn't matter". You know I have a lot of respect for you, but I find it remarkable that you could be opposed to illegal recruiting on one hand, yet say it really doesn't matter? I truly hope that I'm taking that statement out of the context you intended.

I say that in the context of this. If I my children is attending Public School A and I have illegal contact from School B, but am still sending my kids to Public School A, a good number of parents would look at it and say no big deal and does not matter.

 

Depending on the nature of the recruiting. Coaches call my house. Coaches stop by after a game at an AAU tournament and tell my child and me that they played a good game and that is the type of athletes they like to coach.

 

My understanding those are illegal. But how many parents are going to turn in the school and coach for those two things above?

 

Now offer of cash payments and the like, I can see them doing that, as that is major wrong in many's eyes.

 

But they are going to look at those cases as "doesn't really matter."

 

 

Finally, like is the case with many other things, it takes courage to do the right thing. Whether that's preaching the Good Lord's teachings or reporting coaches that are illegally recruiting. My guess is that the way you've raised your teenage children, they would not only understand, but respect you even more for doing the right thing.

 

But you also cannot fight every battle for every thing that is going on. You have to pick and choose your battles. For me, I don't think I would do it because in the scheme of things in my life if a NKY school is recruiting I don't really care enough about it.

 

I would rather put my energies in fighting true scourges in this country like abortion. Like kids not caring about their education. Like parents not caring about their kids. About letting people know about the sacrifice and love of Jesus Christ. About raising my family.

 

I would put my energies there and not some case about HS athletics. Because at the end of time, the # of championships hanging on the wall mean diddly and squat.

 

Heck, I probably spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on BGP even discussing it. I just enjoy the discussion with individuals like yourself that I can intelligently debate with. :thumb:

 

And honestly, I would have no problems with two classes. One that field their teams through open recruiting. One that fielded their teams without recruiting. Let the schools that are alike play against schools that are alike.

In today's world it is extremely hard for anything to stay quiet.

 

I say that in the context of this. If I my children is attending Public School A and I have illegal contact from School B, but am still sending my kids to Public School A, a good number of parents would look at it and say no big deal and does not matter.

 

Depending on the nature of the recruiting. Coaches call my house. Coaches stop by after a game at an AAU tournament and tell my child and me that they played a good game and that is the type of athletes they like to coach.

 

My understanding those are illegal. But how many parents are going to turn in the school and coach for those two things above?

 

Now offer of cash payments and the like, I can see them doing that, as that is major wrong in many's eyes.

 

But they are going to look at those cases as "doesn't really matter."

 

 

 

But you also cannot fight every battle for every thing that is going on. You have to pick and choose your battles. For me, I don't think I would do it because in the scheme of things in my life if a NKY school is recruiting I don't really care enough about it.

 

I would rather put my energies in fighting true scourges in this country like abortion. Like kids not caring about their education. Like parents not caring about their kids. About letting people know about the sacrifice and love of Jesus Christ. About raising my family.

 

I would put my energies there and not some case about HS athletics. Because at the end of time, the # of championships hanging on the wall mean diddly and squat.

 

Heck, I probably spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on BGP even discussing it. I just enjoy the discussion with individuals like yourself that I can intelligently debate with. :thumb:

 

And honestly, I would have no problems with two classes. One that field their teams through open recruiting. One that fielded their teams without recruiting. Let the schools that are alike play against schools that are alike.

 

Fair enough. But those that seem to have a passion about arguing about all the illegal recruiting that ALLEGEDLY is going on and wanting heads to roll should put up or shut up.

Fair enough. But those that seem to have a passion about arguing about all the illegal recruiting that ALLEGEDLY is going on and wanting heads to roll should put up or shut up.

 

But it does not happen to them. Heck, who would be stupid enough to send recruiting information to Wilson Sears house. (Plus, look how he is villainified for his stance and the stance that you are challenging people to take.)

 

It happens to the parents who may only have the single child and not be a HS athletics nut like us. How are you going to make them feel passionate about it, to go through the things you mentioned when they are dealing with 4 years of HS athletics and then that is it.

 

And it is about a school that their child is not attending and may not even compete against. Football wise, let's say their child is attending Dayton and it is CovCath doing the recruiting. CovCath is not the school beating their child out of the playoffs.

 

The recruiting does not affect them personally, (and you and I know that for most people today, it is all about me, me, me, me), so to them, it won't really matter.

 

For those that know who LBBC is, it would be stupid for them to contact me and recruiting my child to play for them. How stupid would it be for them to contact a coach's, AD's or principal's child?

But it does not happen to them. Heck, who would be stupid enough to send recruiting information to Wilson Sears house. (Plus, look how he is villainified for his stance and the stance that you are challenging people to take.)

 

It happens to the parents who may only have the single child and not be a HS athletics nut like us. How are you going to make them feel passionate about it, to go through the things you mentioned when they are dealing with 4 years of HS athletics and then that is it.

 

And it is about a school that their child is not attending and may not even compete against. Football wise, let's say their child is attending Dayton and it is CovCath doing the recruiting. CovCath is not the school beating their child out of the playoffs.

 

The recruiting does not affect them personally, (and you and I know that for most people today, it is all about me, me, me, me), so to them, it won't really matter.

 

For those that know who LBBC is, it would be stupid for them to contact me and recruiting my child to play for them. How stupid would it be for them to contact a coach's, AD's or principal's child?

 

I don't agree with the bolded part. Every player that Dayton loses to CovCath makes Dayton a weaker team, thus hurting Dayton's chances of winning. That's true regardless of whether Dayton is in the same class as CovCath or not.

 

Again, IMO if people don't think illegal recruiting is a big enough problem to put the time in and have the courage to do something about it, then they have zero business complaining about the illegal recruiting or advocating separate classes for those that recruit and those that don't.

And here you have big advantage that privates have over publics.

 

Child does not want to attend the school district in which they reside.

 

She can choose to go to Private School A that can offer financial aid to help offset the cost of tuition or Public School B that has open enrollment but CANNOT offer financial aid to help offset the cost of tuition.

 

Advantage: privates.

 

And, to reprise a classic, here are a few advantages publics (rural and urban) have over privates:

 

 

Look at the vast majority of private schools. What finances do privates have that outweigh public finances? Would your school trade its situation with Louisville DeSales, a private school? Compare DeSales with the advantages of your public school. Your public school has the initial multimillion dollar head start when it was built for you by tax revenues paid in part by the parents of DeSales students. Athletic facilities? DeSales has no football stadium. Your local public high school probably has a stadium. Throw a couple more million on the ledger in your favor. Those same DeSales kids’ parents paid in part for your stadium. Still believe DeSales is the wealthy school vis-a-vis your public school? Don’t forget teachers’ salaries. Every year the tab comes due for this bill. DeSales' supporters pay this entirely out of their pockets. The government pays all of this bill for your institution. Did we discuss furnishing that empty multimillion dollar school facility you were given? Desks, labs, lockers…. You may have taken these for granted, something the blue collar parents of DeSales students, located in a blue collar neighborhood, are acutely aware of. We still haven’t discussed support staff. Somebody has to keep the physical plant operational and clean. Set aside another huge block of money-every day. Is your desire to trade with DeSales for their hypothetical "wealth" waning? It just gets worse. We haven’t discussed medical benefits, pensions and vacation pay for teachers and support staff. And don’t forget building upkeep, expansion, legal expenses and myriad other expenses that go into providing a first class education to young people. Now substitute Covington Catholic, St. Henry, Mercy, Pres, Christian Academy, Lexington Christian or most other privates. If you are honest, you will admit that the financial playing field is not level, but it tilts in a direction that many do not want to admit, and this exists whether rural or urban.

Nice post Diogenes.:thumb:

Great post Diogenes--a lot of truths said here many don't want to hear. Also, the "financial assistance" question-In 2004, Fayette Co Public Schools handed out $1.3 million in breakfast/lunch/book fees assistance to its students in the five public high school alone. I heard the arguments that this is not financial assistance, but the receiving family must fill out a request form and meet an income test to qualify. Explain to me how that is not financial assistance.

Great post Diogenes--a lot of truths said here many don't want to hear. Also, the "financial assistance" question-In 2004, Fayette Co Public Schools handed out $1.3 million in breakfast/lunch/book fees assistance to its students in the five public high school alone. I heard the arguments that this is not financial assistance, but the receiving family must fill out a request form and meet an income test to qualify. Explain to me how that is not financial assistance.

 

Does not come from the school.

 

Diogenes was accurate in his posts. But left out that the advantages tilt the playing field back to level and then to the privates side. Imagine how uneven it would be if the advantages Diogenes points out didn't exist.

Does not come from the school.

 

Diogenes was accurate in his posts. But left out that the advantages tilt the playing field back to level and then to the privates side. Imagine how uneven it would be if the advantages Diogenes points out didn't exist.

 

 

Which ones tilt it back in our direction and in what way?

 

I know we have many advantages, but I want an idea of things that we have over all public schools, not just rural public schools. True advantages.

Which ones tilt it back in our direction and in what way?

 

I know we have many advantages, but I want an idea of things that we have over all public schools, not just rural public schools. True advantages.

 

Those have been discussed in great detail in many of the threads in this forum.

Those have been discussed in great detail in many of the threads in this forum.

 

 

Good point, that was a newbie question. My bad. :creepy: :lol:

Whoa!! Signed off for a while. Got back on to read a little and, man, has this thread become interesting.

 

One flaw I see in several of the posts is the belief that not enough people are going to the KHSAA with allegations. All you have to do is follow the last year or so of news in this area. There has absolutely been enough allegations with specifics to make the KHSAA aware and believe there is enough "circumstantial evidence" to warrant changes. Thus, proposal 2, for example, as a solution to slow down the illegal recruiting of public school 8th grade stars. As a voice for the public schools in a round table discussion with legislators, I could not support proposal 2 because I am an advocate for student/athletes and this proposal was just plain wrong. Penalizing a kid with the loss of 25% of his high school eligibility just didn't feel right. And this is just the proposal that made it past the Board of Control. Other proposals that didn't make it this far also focused on punishing the athlete. Proposal 2 was also wrong going the other way. What about the family who sent their child to private school through 8th grade but didn't have enough money for private high and too much money to receive financial aid. Anyway, I'm digressing. My point is that the KHSAA is fully aware of the recruiting and hears from witnesses regularly. More proof that the KHSAA is aware and accepts that it is happening is the regular proposals to hire more compliance officers in the KHSAA. Don't fool yourself into believing there has not been enough reports for the KHSAA to accept that most illegal recruiting is happening in the large private institutions.

 

This issue and debate will NEVER EVER go away!! The only way to stop the private/public problems is to separate. Period!! I say this without believing separation is the right thing to do. Diogenes made some great points with Desales. Desales football would perish in a private only playoff system. As a matter of fact, Desales is probably hurt more by illegal recruiting from the big privates than the public schools are. The privates would have to go to a class system and the financial burden of this may be insurmountable.

^ With 46 privates, how do you propose we divide it up?

 

Not all of which even play football to the best of my knowledge.

 

In Louisville:

 

Trinity

St.X

DeSales

Holy Cross

Christian Academy of Louisville

 

Of those none of the bottom 3 would even be fair to have play the Rocks or Tigers. I dare say Ballard, Male, Manual, Henry Clay and Boone County have more of a chance against them.

 

Outside of Louisville we have:

 

Owensboro Catholic

Newport Central Catholic

Covington Catholic

Lexington Catholic

Lexington Christian Academy

 

Of those only CovCath and LexCath would remotely have a shot at the titans of 6A.

I think it's only a matter of time that Christian Academy of Louisville will challenge Trinity and X. It's a relatively new school and has an affluent family base, just like X and Trinity. I don't know what there interest is, but if they choose to invest in Football the only variable will be time.