Public and Private School are too inherently different to be effectively governed by the same rules and regulations. I've heard all the arguments. I also realize my position is very simplistic. However, I really believe it IS that simple. If there is going to be a change that will make a difference, that change will have to be separation.

I also believe that Jefferson County has issues with some of their own public schools that have been set up with special privileges other schools don't enjoy, e.g. Male, Manual, Central, and Butler. If geographic boundaries aren't set for every participating school, there is no possible way for any organization to regulate athletic recruiting.

In what way are they inherently different? please explain.

 

Catholic vs. Christian vs. Jewish vs. protestant vs. atheistic vs.humanistic?

Paid for by the parents whose children attend (mostly) or paid for by taxes?

Pay for mine and your kid vs. pay for only your kid?

Tradition based programs (support regardless of success) vs. performance only based programs?

Disciplined based programs vs. Individual focused programs?

Academic and athletics vs. one or the other?

Student love for the school vs. assigned based on neighborhood, race etc.?

Always wanted to attend vs. Go there because I have to?

Prayer in classrooms and taught to all vs. not allowed to pray or worship?

My great great grandfather, great grandfather, grandfather, father and I all prayed to go to school vs. I go because the state tells me where to go

Jefferson County has open enrollment, not every county in the state does. Is that our fault?

In what way are they inherently different? please explain.

 

Catholic vs. Christian vs. Jewish vs. protestant vs. atheistic vs.humanistic?

Paid for by the parents whose children attend (mostly) or paid for by taxes?

Pay for mine and your kid vs. pay for only your kid?

Tradition based programs (support regardless of success) vs. performance only based programs?

Disciplined based programs vs. Individual focused programs?

Academic and athletics vs. one or the other?

Student love for the school vs. assigned based on neighborhood, race etc.?

Always wanted to attend vs. Go there because I have to?

Prayer in classrooms and taught to all vs. not allowed to pray or worship?

My great great grandfather, great grandfather, grandfather, father and I all prayed to go to school vs. I go because the state tells me where to go

I am simply speaking of state and federal regulations (tax base) limiting the pool of potential athletes to a geographic area (generally the county of the school district) vs. a limitless pool of athletes. I am intentionally keeping it this simple to avoid all of the other volatile opinions on this topic.

Jefferson County has open enrollment, not every county in the state does. Is that our fault?

Whose fault?

Public and Private School are too inherently different to be effectively governed by the same rules and regulations. I've heard all the arguments. I also realize my position is very simplistic. However, I really believe it IS that simple. If there is going to be a change that will make a difference, that change will have to be separation.

I also believe that Jefferson County has issues with some of their own public schools that have been set up with special privileges other schools don't enjoy, e.g. Male, Manual, Central, and Butler. If geographic boundaries aren't set for every participating school, there is no possible way for any organization to regulate athletic recruiting.

 

I may end up agreeing with you, but probably for different reasons. Mine would be out of shear exhaustion.

 

My question, again and again, is, define "make a difference". Until somebody can define the goal, the desired result, any change will be futile. We need to know what we want. I know, "level playing field"; but that's not good enough. As I've asked several times, what is that? How do you measure it, quantify it, know you've accomplished it? What does this perfect world of "level" look like? The only logical answer, if we're being honest, is to say it's when everybody from top to bottom wins a state championship, or at least, the same schools don't win one very often. Can you imagine what we'd have if we legislate that? There's no end to it...we'd be separating separations forever!

 

If it's not really championships, then how do we define and measure it? "Level" is forever subjective...I just can't see anyone agreeing on what that is, much less knowing if/when we've accomplished it.

 

I am genuinely interested in every Kentucky student having an equal opportunity to achieve. If separating them is the best way to do it, great! Lay it out and let's do it.

 

I just don't see how any school, athletic program, or student is missing that opportunity? It's available to everyone!

 

If I graduate and I am a better student, better athlete, better person then I was when I started; ...and...if I was pushed, expected, and did in fact grow, work hard, earn pride in myself, sacrifice, learn, apsire, improve, lay it all on the line, count on-and be held accountable to my classmates / teammates - teachers / coaches; respect authority and others, win and lose with dignity; etc, etc, ....BUT, I never won a championship......am I a failure? Did the system fail me? Was my h.s. life unfair? How do you measure my success or the level-ness of my playing field?

 

I am terribly afraid of a world where only the people with rings are 'successful', and the ones with out them got cheated.

 

I prefer a world where anything is possible, but not guaranteed; where the fruits of my effort are the attributes with which I confidently face college, work, armed services, etc.

 

Because if all I have is a trophy in a case that me and everybody else was given as a result of our "mass leveling policy"...and I'm void the aforementioned, hard earned, real trophies...then this system IS totally unfair.

Whose fault?

 

 

What he is saying is that Jefferson County Public schools can get gets from anywhere within the county, they aren't stuck at a particular school.

 

I am kind of surprised Boone County hasn't done that.

I thought that was the meaning of his post. It was also the meaning of my post. I didn't state it very clearly, but I agree Jeff Co. has an advantage to other counties and agree that this advantage is not fair. This is why some Jeff schools are able to consistently compete with the big privates. However, the big privates have an even larger advantage than Jeff.

Open Enrollment in Jeff has killed school pride and tradition. I love going to football games in other counties and seeing the entire community there to show their support. This is a whole other thread. Sorry I got off the topic.

Honestly, separation is not an idea solution. I just happen to believe it is the only solution to make a difference (the difference being neutralizing the potential athlete pool advantage). I also understand that separation would destroy the small private institutions.

I would also like to say I am not so arrogant to think my opinion is absolutely right, it is just my opinion.

I am simply speaking of state and federal regulations (tax base) limiting the pool of potential athletes to a geographic area (generally the county of the school district) vs. a limitless pool of athletes. I am intentionally keeping it this simple to avoid all of the other volatile opinions on this topic.

 

That's the problem, it's not a simple situation with simple solutions.

I thought that was the meaning of his post. It was also the meaning of my post. I didn't state it very clearly, but I agree Jeff Co. has an advantage to other counties and agree that this advantage is not fair. This is why some Jeff schools are able to consistently compete with the big privates. However, the big privates have an even larger advantage than Jeff.

Open Enrollment in Jeff has killed school pride and tradition. I love going to football games in other counties and seeing the entire community there to show their support. This is a whole other thread. Sorry I got off the topic.

Honestly, separation is not an idea solution. I just happen to believe it is the only solution to make a difference (the difference being neutralizing the potential athlete pool advantage). I also understand that separation would destroy the small private institutions.

I would also like to say I am not so arrogant to think my opinion is absolutely right, it is just my opinion.

 

So it is okay, in the interests of "fairness", to destroy the small private institutions because there are those wh feel they aren't winning their fair share?

I thought that was the meaning of his post. It was also the meaning of my post. I didn't state it very clearly, but I agree Jeff Co. has an advantage to other counties and agree that this advantage is not fair. This is why some Jeff schools are able to consistently compete with the big privates. However, the big privates have an even larger advantage than Jeff.

Open Enrollment in Jeff has killed school pride and tradition. I love going to football games in other counties and seeing the entire community there to show their support. This is a whole other thread. Sorry I got off the topic.

Honestly, separation is not an idea solution. I just happen to believe it is the only solution to make a difference (the difference being neutralizing the potential athlete pool advantage). I also understand that separation would destroy the small private institutions.

I would also like to say I am not so arrogant to think my opinion is absolutely right, it is just my opinion.

So if the private schools are separated out then there is a "level" playing field? Don't think so!!!! Now Jefferson Co. schools have open enrollment and they have an advantage over counties that don't have it. Where does all this "separating" end. The answer is it doesn't. Separating schools will create as many problems as it supposedly eliminates.

I'm reading a lot of questioning of my opinion but no counter-arguments. If we are going to write off separation, let's do two things:

1) limit athletic eligibility to the county of the private institution, and

2) require financial assistance to be proportional for athletes and non-athletes, i.e. if 10% of the entire enrollment is receiving financial assistance, then only 10% of the athletes can be receiving financial assistance.

 

Another thing; I would love to see a post by a private school supporter at least acknowledging an unfair advantage.

I'm reading a lot of questioning of my opinion but no counter-arguments. If we are going to write off separation, let's do two things:

1) limit athletic eligibility to the county of the private institution, and

2) require financial assistance to be proportional for athletes and non-athletes, i.e. if 10% of the entire enrollment is receiving financial assistance, then only 10% of the athletes can be receiving financial assistance.

 

Another thing; I would love to see a post by a private school supporter at least acknowledging an unfair advantage.

 

 

Just out of curiousity, have you read through this forum in depth? If so all of your questions here would be wholly answered.

 

Trinity has an advantage. We have about 1500 boys in the school, a rather inherent advantage with it. Most of the kids who play football for us have played many years in grade school(elementary and middle to people unfamiliar with the nomenclature of the Catholic schools). I make no bones about it. I would be fine with a boundary for the Catholic schools in Louisville if, and only if, it was the bounadaries for the Archdiocese of Louisville.

 

As it has been said again and again in this forum(hence my initial question), any district can allow students from other counties if they want. Any of them can have open enrollment if they want. The problem is that outside of extremely populous counties it doesn't make much difference.

 

You seem to think that financial aid is awarded like athletic scholarships, the very concept is offensive to anyone familiar with the process at the schools. I will search through this forum for you, since you have not deigned to do so, for a description of our financial aid process to try and dispel any misunderstandings.

I'm reading a lot of questioning of my opinion but no counter-arguments. If we are going to write off separation, let's do two things:

1) limit athletic eligibility to the county of the private institution, and

2) require financial assistance to be proportional for athletes and non-athletes, i.e. if 10% of the entire enrollment is receiving financial assistance, then only 10% of the athletes can be receiving financial assistance.

 

Another thing; I would love to see a post by a private school supporter at least acknowledging an unfair advantage.

He's new , he'll learn . BTW go and read some of the old threads on this subject . This private school supporter will never acknowledge an unfair advantage on our part unless you acknowledge an unfair advantage on the publics part when for years and years they were winning the majority of the Championships .

http://www.bluegrasspreps.com/showthread.php?t=81976&highlight=Financial+Aid