See? To me, that statement is simply wrong. If the county housed them, birthed them, fed them, paid thier medical bills, payed their college tuition...then the students belong to the county. Until the time we become a Socialist society, I believe our kids belong to us.

It really is an ignorant, ignorant statement, and it really baffles me how anyone could possibly feel that a county owns a kid, baffles me...are we in slave times>

Attending a private school is not necessarily a betterment to the child. THAT IS A MYTH!

The above is true, however it was easier for me to get a better education at Trinity than it was at Ballard, that's the only way for me to know.

Attending a private school is not necessarily a betterment to the child. THAT IS A MYTH!

 

The latest research shows that you take the SAME socio-economic kids that are attending private schools that are attending public schools and they perform at the same level. When you compare apples to apples (as BGP is fond of saying) the privates DO NOT outperform the publics across the board.

 

Now when you throw in the publics oranges (court appointed students, resource students, students with parents who don't care), then they test scores change. The privates do not have the oranges or at least the quantity of oranges that the publics have.

 

The private schools do not have to put up with the "oranges". Facts are facts and the facts are that private schools can eliminate the "distractions to education" that the public schools must tolerate.

 

All the studies in the world won't change the facts. The atmosphere at a private school is much more "learner friendly".

The private schools do not have to put up with the "oranges". Facts are facts and the facts are that private schools can eliminate the "distractions to education" that the public schools must tolerate.

 

All the studies in the world won't change the facts. The atmosphere at a private school is much more "learner friendly".

 

I know some very specific cases where the oranges were accepted because of the dollar payments into private schools.

I know some very specific cases where the oranges were accepted because of the dollar payments into private schools.

 

SS, you are well known as a public school advocate. Therefore, your post is not a surprise. Of course, you are correct. A few of those "oranges" do make it into private schools. However, I believe it is safe to say that you people get about 99% of them. Wouldn't you have to agree?

 

I know that the public people like to argue that they must take all comers while the private schools can pick and choose. Of course, that is a valid argument. It is also the best argument in favor of private schools. You people must "accommodate" while we private schools do not. Indeed, as the atmosphere of the public schools continues to worsen, the private schools continue to look much better. Why would any parent wish to put his or her child in a situation where violence, drugs, dumbing down, etc. are, by the nature of the system, a staple when a safer environment is available.

 

You people better hope that school vouchers never see the light of day because, if they do, much of your wheat will leave and you will just have your chaff (oranges).

SS, you are well known as a public school advocate. Therefore, your post is not a surprise. Of course, you are correct. A few of those "oranges" do make it into private schools. However, I believe it is safe to say that you people get about 99% of them. Wouldn't you have to agree?

 

I know that the public people like to argue that they must take all comers while the private schools can pick and choose. Of course, that is a valid argument. It is also the best argument in favor of private schools. You people must "accommodate" while we private schools do not. Indeed, as the atmosphere of the public schools continues to worsen, the private schools continue to look much better. Why would any parent wish to put his or her child in a situation where violence, drugs, dumbing down, etc. are, by the nature of the system, a staple when a safer environment is available.

 

You people better hope that school vouchers never see the light of day because, if they do, much of your wheat will leave and you will just have your chaff (oranges).

 

 

 

You know, I was pretty much with you in this argument until this piece of trash. Why is it suddenly that, let me get the quote right, "the chaff" is by all accounts "OUR problem?" The public school system didn't raise these kids, they're just trying to educate them because, oh and let me use YOUR term, "YOU PEOPLE," WON'T educate them. I spent 15 years working with drug addicted youth and let me tell you a real fact, the VAST majority of THOSE kids came from PRIVATE or upper class public schools. NOT the inner city schools YOU PEOPLE like to refer to EVERY time you blast public education. Remember, you can't be a drug addict or alcohol abuser WITHOUT THE MONEY TO BE ONE. You just keep pushing that line of logic and that way of thinking and every single one of us from the public schools who have been on your side in this separation argument will walk away from you too. You see, some of us know a few things about private education that aren't so pretty either.

You know, I was pretty much with you in this argument until this piece of trash. Why is it suddenly that, let me get the quote right, "the chaff" is by all accounts "OUR problem?" The public school system didn't raise these kids, they're just trying to educate them because, oh and let me use YOUR term, "YOU PEOPLE," WON'T educate them. I spent 15 years working with drug addicted youth and let me tell you a real fact, the VAST majority of THOSE kids came from PRIVATE or upper class public schools. NOT the inner city schools YOU PEOPLE like to refer to EVERY time you blast public education. Remember, you can't be a drug addict or alcohol abuser WITHOUT THE MONEY TO BE ONE. You just keep pushing that line of logic and that way of thinking and every single one of us from the public schools who have been on your side in this separation argument will walk away from you too. You see, some of us know a few things about private education that aren't so pretty either.

 

Your argument is interesting. Can you document it with facts rather than mere statements?

 

My point is that the public schools must take and accommodate these distractions whereas private schools can pick and choose. If my reference to "wheat" and "chaff" was offensive, I'll change back to the original reference and call them "oranges". Does that really change the discourse?

 

The point remains that there are inherent differences between the atmosphere in a private school and in a public school. Those differences make private education attractive for those who can afford it. It is sad that many cannot. Vouchers would help cure that injustice.

 

I am not taking a shot at the public schools. They do the best they can in light of all the ridiculous rules they must follow. But, although I may applaud the public schools, the problems remain and they are increasing in number and in intensity each year.

Why would anyone think that the results of this one would be any different then the last time? The BOE stopped that one, it never got to the legislature.

 

I know where it got to All Tell. I am just saying that if everything that the publics try to get done is shot down, look for this to happen.

I know where it got to All Tell. I am just saying that if everything that the publics try to get done is shot down, look for this to happen.

 

If a strait split happened, would too have to get BOE/legislative approval?

The schools voted for a split last season by a huge majority and the BOE shot it down.

You know, I was pretty much with you in this argument until this piece of trash. Why is it suddenly that, let me get the quote right, "the chaff" is by all accounts "OUR problem?" The public school system didn't raise these kids, they're just trying to educate them because, oh and let me use YOUR term, "YOU PEOPLE," WON'T educate them. I spent 15 years working with drug addicted youth and let me tell you a real fact, the VAST majority of THOSE kids came from PRIVATE or upper class public schools. NOT the inner city schools YOU PEOPLE like to refer to EVERY time you blast public education. Remember, you can't be a drug addict or alcohol abuser WITHOUT THE MONEY TO BE ONE. You just keep pushing that line of logic and that way of thinking and every single one of us from the public schools who have been on your side in this separation argument will walk away from you too. You see, some of us know a few things about private education that aren't so pretty either.

 

While I think Kingfish's main point is accurate - privates can be picky while publics cannot - I would disagree wholeheartedly with his seemingly broad generalization regarding drugs and alcohol. I have experience in both public and privates and when it comes to drugs and alcohol neither system has anything in place to stop the usage. Logic might tell you that if it takes money to attend private schools and it takes money to buy drugs, private school kids have the means to be the buyers/users. In addition, sometimes the publics get stuck with the former private schoolers who DID the drugs and were booted.

 

I know a family who chose to send their child to one type of system because the other system was filled with "partiers" only to then have one of their son's friends sent to the "other" system because HIS friends were partying. Partying knows no socioeconomic boundaries nor religious affiliation. Its a societal problem - not public vs private.

While I think Kingfish's main point is accurate - privates can be picky while publics cannot - I would disagree wholeheartedly with his seemingly broad generalization regarding drugs and alcohol. I have experience in both public and privates and when it comes to drugs and alcohol neither system has anything in place to stop the usage. Logic might tell you that if it takes money to attend private schools and it takes money to buy drugs, private school kids have the means to be the buyers/users. In addition, sometimes the publics get stuck with the former private schoolers who DID the drugs and were booted.

 

I know a family who chose to send their child to one type of system because the other system was filled with "partiers" only to then have one of their son's friends sent to the "other" system because HIS friends were partying. Partying knows no socioeconomic boundaries nor religious affiliation. Its a societal problem - not public vs private.

 

I think that we are nitpicking a little. Because of the negative influences that saturate our society, both public students and private students are falling prey to the many destructive temptations that are all around them- television, movies, music, internet, general acceptance of vulgarity, permissiveness, breakdown of the family unit, churches trying more to be social clubs than places of worship, etc.

 

My point is not to downgrade the public schools. It is to state that private schools, by their nature, are better able to rid themselves of these distractions. Thus, private schools, with few exceptions, offer a better opportunity for learning and safety.

SS, you are well known as a public school advocate. Therefore, your post is not a surprise. Of course, you are correct. A few of those "oranges" do make it into private schools. However, I believe it is safe to say that you people get about 99% of them. Wouldn't you have to agree?

 

I know that the public people like to argue that they must take all comers while the private schools can pick and choose. Of course, that is a valid argument. It is also the best argument in favor of private schools. You people must "accommodate" while we private schools do not. Indeed, as the atmosphere of the public schools continues to worsen, the private schools continue to look much better. Why would any parent wish to put his or her child in a situation where violence, drugs, dumbing down, etc. are, by the nature of the system, a staple when a safer environment is available.

 

You people better hope that school vouchers never see the light of day because, if they do, much of your wheat will leave and you will just have your chaff (oranges).

 

We people?????

 

Good grief.

 

And, your points are valid,:sleep: Beechwood has a horrible problem, so does Highlands, Bardstown - time to shut it down. Of course, there is absolutely no such thing that occurs out of the line of moral and ethical behavior within the private school community. Not a chance. Their established track record speaks for itself and why the voucher debate never advances is just so strange?

My point is not to downgrade the public schools. It is to state that private schools, by their nature, are better able to rid themselves of these distractions. Thus, private schools, with few exceptions, offer a better opportunity for learning and safety.

 

 

Ah but by you very own hand it most certainly is. You question my statements but make broadbrush assumptions and perpetuate myths about public schools in your posts without so much as a reference to even personal experience. The atmosphere at all publics schools does not "continue to worsen" (your words). Quite to the contrary, the vast majority of public schools in this state function quite nicely with rising test scores, higher graduation rates, fewer drop-outs, etc. (See the state assessment scores, 10-year trend) Because there is a visible minority of troubled schools, this becomes "Your Peoples'" argument for allowing you to thumb your noses at the compromises being set forth in this ATHLETIC debate? I absolutely defend anyone's right to choice in education. That is the only American way. But to use that right to defend a lack of willingness to set forth self-imposed limitations in the interest of competitive fair play is ridiculous. The simple fact that the Diocese of Covington ITSELF cannot or will not enforce it's OWN district guidelines says more then anything else said in this debate. Competition makes us all better, but so does compromise.

From the overreaction of Silver Shadow and bulldog77, I would say that I unintentionally hit a couple of nerves. I always heard that, when that happens, you have hit too close to home.

 

Sorry, boys, I still stand by the thesis of my posts so I guess maybe we should just agree to disagree. However, it is good to see such staunch public school defenders.

 

I should mention that, for the benefit of bulldog77, I have a long history in public education at all levels from the middle school to the public college. My service covers all areas from teacher to coach to administrator to school board member to, most important of all, involved parent. My colleagues at the college level continually bemoan the fact that, each year, students from Kentucky public schools are less and less prepared for college. If you doubt it, check out the emphasis most public colleges must put on remedial courses. Many students, I am told, must take three remedial math classes before they can even take College Algebra. The path to taking English Composition is quite similar.

 

So, bulldog77, either the college professors that I know well are teaching at schools that only attract the very poorest of students or the public schools are not doing a particularly good job. From personal knowledge, I conclude it is the latter.

 

For this quandry, I do not blame the public school teachers. I blame those who actually make the decisions in the Department of Education and in our colleges of education.

 

One more example, if I may? The level of knowledge of students in the area of English Grammar is embarrassing. Of course, in our modern day of hyped test scores for reward, our English teachers are not trained in English Grammar. It is the blind leading the blind. It is a shame.