I didn't mean any of that as a personal attack HSSB. I'm just saying that it's not as difficult to determine with the naked eye by simply watching the games who is and isn't a quality fielder at any position. I never implied that you agreed with the stat. Frankly, I'd hope all Dunn homerism aside, you'd agree he's not in the top 10. I will, however, say that I believe that E-5 is more of a defensive liability than Dunn. But we all know your affinity for the Donkey. This stat however is silly IMO and the only fact that I find is that is in black and white in the USAToday. It is perhaps the most silly and most wildly inaccurate I've seen.

 

Didn't take it as a personal attack.

 

Another example of statistical noise.

 

I don't think he is the goat out there that Lance McCallister would try and convince you he is, but no, I'm not sure I'd have him in the upper 1/3 of MLB.

 

The stat seems difficult to track, yes, but the end result in most areas IS a guy that I would have thought would be one of the best at his position.

Didn't take it as a personal attack.

 

Another example of statistical noise.

 

I don't think he is the goat out there that Lance McCallister would try and convince you he is, but no, I'm not sure I'd have him in the upper 1/3 of MLB.

 

The stat seems difficult to track, yes, but the end result in most areas IS a guy that I would have thought would be one of the best at his position.

....:thumb: and while I'm not a big proponent of statistics, sometimes this is the only form of comparison. These types of in-depth breakdown analysis, are a bit over the top though.

 

I can see button-up shirts, pencil pocket organizers and conversations, most of us couldn't partake in, being the norm around these computer input stations....No thanks, I'll stick with what HSSB and I know, the game of Baseball.

Didn't take it as a personal attack.

 

Another example of statistical noise.

 

I don't think he is the goat out there that Lance McCallister would try and convince you he is, but no, I'm not sure I'd have him in the upper 1/3 of MLB.

 

The stat seems difficult to track, yes, but the end result in most areas IS a guy that I would have thought would be one of the best at his position.

Well, for instance, in centerfield, would you not believe that Jim Edmonds is in the top 10 at that position? Unless I missed it, he was not on the list. And if defense was the only criteria as to why I'd have a player, I can say that there are several in the top 10 in CF that I'd have Edmonds in lieu of. Of course that's from seeing him play, not recording an "area" within normal limits of average.

Well, for instance, in centerfield, would you not believe that Jim Edmonds is in the top 10 at that position? Unless I missed it, he was not on the list. And if defense was the only criteria as to why I'd have a player, I can say that there are several in the top 10 in CF that I'd have Edmonds in lieu of. Of course that's from seeing him play, not recording an "area" within normal limits of average.

You, I and HSSB would believe Edmonds, is one of the best defensive CF's. He's just offering info, from a certain montage of analytical number crunchers....

 

I like Dunn, but wouldn't begin to classify him as one of the top 10 defensive LF's.

I think Edmonds is past his prime, and frankly, I'm not sure he'd crack my Top 10 anymore -- but he'd be close.

 

For the record, their Top 10 in CF are:

 

Grady

Beltran

Vernon Wells (a bit of a head scratcher for me)

CoCo Crisp

Rowand (LOVE Him)

DeJesus

Melky Cabrera

Granderson

Ichiro

Torii

 

Edmonds would have a hard time today cracking that list. Both he and Andruw would have been in my Top 5 three years ago, but some of those Cats can flat out pick it and go get it in CF.

Anyone else think it'd be funny to see Dunn lugging his gear down the hall to the other clubby about an hour and a half before the game tonight? He'd have some goofy grin on his face and then bash Reds' pitching for 3 days.

 

Baseball is great, I can't be convinced otherwise.

I think Edmonds is past his prime, and frankly, I'm not sure he'd crack my Top 10 anymore -- but he'd be close.

 

For the record, their Top 10 in CF are:

 

Grady

Beltran

Vernon Wells (a bit of a head scratcher for me)

CoCo Crisp

Rowand (LOVE Him)

DeJesus

Melky Cabrera

Granderson

Ichiro

Torii

 

Edmonds would have a hard time today cracking that list. Both he and Andruw would have been in my Top 5 three years ago, but some of those Cats can flat out pick it and go get it in CF.

....:scared: You've dropped off my Christmas mailing list.

Well, for instance, in centerfield, would you not believe that Jim Edmonds is in the top 10 at that position? Unless I missed it, he was not on the list. And if defense was the only criteria as to why I'd have a player, I can say that there are several in the top 10 in CF that I'd have Edmonds in lieu of. Of course that's from seeing him play, not recording an "area" within normal limits of average.

 

Edmunds is nowhere near the top 10. He's still getting by, as evidenced by the above, on his past glory. He WAS outstanding. He's not anymore. Hamilton is not a great CF but I'd take him this year over Edmonds.

I'm just saying that it's not as difficult to determine with the naked eye by simply watching the games who is and isn't a quality fielder at any position. .

 

Are you telling me that you've watched all of the games? Or , like many of us, is your memory filled with only those plays that the Donkey doesn't make ?

 

I'd challenge ANYONE on here to say they're qualified to give you a definitive answer on the best (insert position) and back it up with supporting material. Its impossible.

 

So, despite what my boys HSSRB and K3 hassle me about, I'll take the stats as being a pretty strong indicator.

Lonnie Wheeler with the other side of the story.

 

 

 

Dunn's corner would argue that the big fellow's homers and on-base percentage (greatly abetted by his penchant for bases on balls) produce quantities of runs, driven in and scored, t

 

Is the bold somehow a negative?

....So, despite what my boys HSSRB and K3 hassle me about, I'll take the stats as being a pretty strong indicator.

....You've got a chance, just keep reading my book.

 

:lol:

 

The stat seems difficult to track, yes, but the end result in most areas IS a guy that I would have thought would be one of the best at his position.

 

There are different versions of range and defensive ratings. As you know, every pitch today and its result are recorded. With the combination of databases and various applications, the dreaded "stat geeks" can now actually determine a)how many balls were put in play in a specific area b)how many resulted in an out and c)how one player compares to another in the same position.

 

So, unlike you and me, these geeks actually can tell you the result of every ball hit to Dunn AND every other LFer. Dunn gets killed because of perception and because sometimes he's not exactly a ballerina. Its all about perception and form if you don't have the true stats/results to make an actual determination.

 

Of course, this is just "statistical noise" to some....

I can think of about 13,000,000 reasons why Adam Dunn should not and will not be a Red next season.

I can think of about 13,000,000 reasons why Adam Dunn should not and will not be a Red next season.

 

 

...then Big Bob needs to sell the team unless he's going to be the northern version of the Marlins. $13M for a big time producer is par for the course today.

...then Big Bob needs to sell the team unless he's going to be the northern version of the Marlins. $13M for a big time producer is par for the course today.

I think he would get at least 15 Mil in the open market.:thumb: