I'd like to see Sheff and Ricky Henderson replace Mike and Mike. Talk about entertainment value. Anything Sheff says should always be taken with a grain of salt.

And thrown in the toilet Just consider the source .

Sheff has a rep of running his mouth but he doesnt have a rep of lying.

 

We have no clue what goes on behind closed doors.

 

True, however, Torre has been managing for a long time. One of two things hasn't happened. 1) No one else has claimed this before Sheff and 2) No one has claimed that Sheff's right. Until that happens I'll hold off on any other conclusions...

Until someone proves that Sheff has a history of lying, you cannot simply discount his accusation because you do not like him.

And until someone backs up his accusation, I have no reason to believe him either. I don't care what his rep is. If he is going to make damaging statements like that, he best have backup to prove it or his comments are simply dead air to me.

And thrown in the toilet Just consider the source .

Isn't this the same guy who recently said the reason that there were more Latinos in MLB was they were more easy to control? Shef just may be the Archie Bunker of MLB! I can't really see how anyone thinks this guy has any credibility at all.

Isn't this the same guy who recently said the reason that there were more Latinos in MLB was they were more easy to control? Shef just may be the Archie Bunker of MLB! I can't really see how anyone thinks this guy has any credibility at all.

 

Yes he did, the link I provided gives you quite a few more "smart" things he has said over the years. I just didn't feel the need to take up 5 pages with all of his comments.

Torre could be completely innocent. I, too, have not heard the claim made before. My point is simple: Don't discount the message simply because you don't like the messenger. Even "jerk, idiot, smart alec, smell bad, whatever" can be right with their claims despite what everyone else believes.

 

No, we do not know what happened to turn Gary against Joe, nor do we know if any of his claims are valid. What we do know, which is all anyone has to base their opinions on at this point, is the track records of the individuals involved.

 

Sheff has shown a propensity to spout off about various topics without seeming to put much thought into what he says. Nor does he show the signs of being a prototypical team player, more of the image of disgruntled player in most peoples minds. Teams have accepted it in the past because he produces.

 

Torre on the other hand has decades of MLB experience working with all manner of races, religions and creeds along the way. No one to this point has ever made such inflammatory remarks regarding the man and no one has yet to step up and support Sheffield's claims. To the contrary, Torre's name is frequently mentioned as an example of a true ambassador of the game and an example of all that is good in professional sports...he shows grace & class in most things he does.

 

Based solely on the evidence given, and again it is all we have to go on right now, it's VERY easy to see why most everyone here shares the same basic opinion on this topic, Sheffield is an ignorant blowhard who would be better served if he learned to keep his piehole shut.

 

We are not completely discounting the validity of Gary's statements, merely expressing our incredulity at the claims and our doubt of the soundness of same. Don't assume it is right just because you do like the guy...:thumb:

Camel's work, again, shows that he runs his mouth. He was 19 when he was with Milwaukee. I took the quote as saying " I was young and ignorant." If you ask him a question, you will get exactly what he's thinking. We may not like what he says but you must admit that its refreshing to hear an honest answer not filled with lame cliches.

 

Until someone proves that Sheff has a history of lying, you cannot simply discount his accusation because you do not like him.

I think the history of his "messages" should be enough reason to dismiss this guy. Unless you are a believer in the garbage Shef has spewn from his mouth.

Isn't this the same guy who recently said the reason that there were more Latinos in MLB was they were more easy to control? Shef just may be the Archie Bunker of MLB! I can't really see how anyone thinks this guy has any credibility at all.

 

I forget who it was but some Latino ballplayer confirmed what Sheff said. As a group (remember there are always exceptions) Latinos come from very, very poor backgrounds. They'll put up with more according to this guy. Interesting.

I think the history of his "messages" should be enough reason to dismiss this guy. Unless you are a believer in the garbage Shef has spewn from his mouth.

 

What messages are you referring to?

 

Again, I have no reason to believe him. I also have no reason to not believe that it happens.

Sheffield was also ask "What about Derek Jeter", he is the team captain and the most respected member of the team?

 

Sheffields's answer was "Jeter doesn't count, he is half black and half white ........he is not all black". Give me a break, and this guy is saying that Torre is handling things in racist maner??:irked: Sounds like Sheff is the racist to me with a statement like that.

 

For the record, one of Sheff's sons has the same racial mix as Jeter.

What messages are you referring to?

 

Again, I have no reason to believe him. I also have no reason to not believe that it happens.

 

 

Sheffield has a history of voicing his opinion and normally it's absurd. Just because he said he'd be a good mentor for Elijah Dukes doesn't mean that's the case. In fact, IMO he'd be far from anything but disruptive. Sheff's character has some major flaws and Torre has always seemed to be a legit guy. He probably treated Gary different because Gary is a moron.

Don't assume it is right just because you do like the guy...:thumb:

 

I knew someone would fall into this trap.

 

I point out potential pitfalls in logic and now I'm President of the Sheff Fan Club.

 

Interesting.

Sheffield has a history of voicing his opinion and normally it's absurd. J.

 

Absurd or do we simply not like what we hear?

 

He expresses a religious opinion , albeit seemingly far from mainstream, and now he's discredited on how he says he and others are treated?

 

He says something about Jeter that is obviously misinterpreted.

 

He says something that we have never considered and because its insulting to one group (Latinos) we automatically write it off without considering if its potentially true.

 

IMO Sheff is the guy that says some crazy stuff but its not always crazy. It simply makes us uncomfortable.

 

Lastly, should someone like Womack or Kenny Lofton come out and back up Sheff's claim, we will then simply rationalize it by saying they were disgruntled with their lack of playing time. Why? Because we like Joe Torre as he APPEARS to us even though we never really truly know any person in sports.

 

Essentially , it comes down to this. We will never truly know if Sheff's claims are true. Therefore, many will make their own judgments based off of what we PERCEIVE to be true.

Absurd or do we simply not like what we hear?

 

He expresses a religious opinion , albeit seemingly far from mainstream, and now he's discredited on how he says he and others are treated?

 

He says something about Jeter that is obviously misinterpreted.

 

He says something that we have never considered and because its insulting to one group (Latinos) we automatically write it off without considering if its potentially true.

 

IMO Sheff is the guy that says some crazy stuff but its not always crazy. It simply makes us uncomfortable.

 

Lastly, should someone like Womack or Kenny Lofton come out and back up Sheff's claim, we will then simply rationalize it by saying they were disgruntled with their lack of playing time. Why? Because we like Joe Torre as he APPEARS to us even though we never really truly know any person in sports.

 

Essentially , it comes down to this. We will never truly know if Sheff's claims are true. Therefore, many will make their own judgments based off of what we PERCEIVE to be true.

 

No, if someone like Womack or Lofton says it's true, I'd be inclined to think there is an issue. Those guys don't have Sheff's history of outrageous commentary.

 

As for "falling into the trap," I was merely giving you guff as it appears you are the only one defending him to any degree. I figured you must be the president of his fan club or at least have him in your rotisserie league...

No, if someone like Womack or Lofton says it's true, I'd be inclined to think there is an issue. Those guys don't have Sheff's history of outrageous commentary.

 

As for "falling into the trap," I was merely giving you guff as it appears you are the only one defending him to any degree. I figured you must be the president of his fan club or at least have him in your rotisserie league...

I heard on espn this morning that Lofton backed up Sheff's comments in saying : ":all I will say is that Sheff knows what he is talking about and that is all I will say". Lofton does not have the same trouble making rep as Sheff but he did critisize Torre for moving him down in the batting order and he felt that he should had been replacing B. Williams in CF . (Williams was another african american so there is no rascist move or non move by Torre there and Lofton was traded at the end of that season). Imo it is just some players that have playing tme or dicipline issues with Torre that are coming out with this. One thing that makes Torre great s that he has had to manage all of the ultra egos oin the Yankee clubhouse as well.

 

I am still not buying any of it. What gets me is if any of this were true.....why didn't these people come out when they thought they were being done wrong ? Them waiting untill later carries no weight with me. Imo most everyone knows what Sheffield is and Lofton seems as if he is just trying to back up a friend that made a ridiculous statement.