Is it time for me to break out the comfy chair?

I respect that you are dedicated to your faith, but I just can't agree with giving honor to a single (human) man, that man being the pope. I read in this encyclopedia that they have things to show reverence to him like a tiara, a cross and the fact that they kiss his feet. I still see him as a human and from what I read there, the signs point to him as a go-between us and Christ and I just can't find the scripture to back that up for me. Who's to say Christ wasn't trying to build his church on Peter's confession?

 

So....those of whom your faith consider to have a higher knowledge of God are not to be respected?

 

Peter was a go-between between the people and Christ. Anyone who imparts the message of God to His people is a go-between. In essence, your minister is a go-between. There are people who are called to "spread the Word". Wouldn't those be go-betweens? The signs of reverence are traditions of respect for the man we know to have a higher calling. Traditions do not superced true Faith in God.

No, I was just wanting clarification on what Catholics believe to be the way of salvation. What you describe is a works salvation. People who are truly Christians will do those things listed in your post out of their love of what the Saviour did for them, not to "earn" or "work" their way to heaven. I was simply seeing if I had understood correctly.:confused:

 

You completely misunderstand. IMO, DO have to "earn" your way to Heaven. Otherwise, I would have to believe that there would be no Ten Commandments, no Beatitudes. Those Biblical passages very clearly outline the "work" we have to do to see the Face of God.

 

I really think that Pope Benedict is not going to be good for the Church. Its obvious that he wants to tear at the very fabric of Pope John XXIII's Vatican II and take the Church back into the dark ages. I fear that he will quickly undo the works of great Catholics like Pope John Paul II, Mother Theresa, and others who have sought to advance the cause of Christ.

 

This is probably the worst post that I have ever read on BGP, sorry to disrespect.

 

JPII and Benedict are very different popes, but too say that Benedict is bad for the Church is absurd. JPII was a master of attracting people, especially youth, to the Church, while Benedict's focus is on returning to Orthodox statutes, like those of Pope John VI and others.

 

To say that he will UNDO the works of the Church is ridiculous.

 

On a side note, Mother Theresa was an excellent Christian, and a phenomenal person, but some parts of her Catholicism were shaky, as in the April 1996 Ladies Home Journal where she stated that she was happy that Princess Diana got a divorce.

Ahh...but, she disguised herself as a man. She'd have never been Pope if it were known she was a woman.

 

Why not? Is a woman's word less meaningful than a man's?

This is probably the worst post that I have ever read on BGP, sorry to disrespect.

 

JPII and Benedict are very different popes, but too say that Benedict is bad for the Church is absurd. JPII was a master of attracting people, especially youth, to the Church, while Benedict's focus is on returning to Orthodox statutes, like those of Pope John VI and others.

 

To say that he will UNDO the works of the Church is ridiculous.

 

On a side note, Mother Theresa was an excellent Christian, and a phenomenal person, but some parts of her Catholicism were shaky, as in the April 1996 Ladies Home Journal where she stated that she was happy that Princess Diana got a divorce.

 

I don't think that that post was too far off.

Why not? Is a woman's word less meaningful than a man's?

 

mexitucky, I don't even know how to respond to your questions anymore. It's not because of the questions, but because you've stated that you are Catholic, and I have a hard time understanding why you ask them. I feel that you must know what the Church teaches, and why. I see that you don't agree with what the Church teaches, so then I wonder why you choose to remain Catholic.

 

I'm not saying that questioning is wrong. But your posts have such a tone of animosity toward the Catholic Church, that it astounds me.

 

To attempt to answer your question above:

 

It's not about a woman's "word". It's not about the value of gender. It simply is about what I, as a Catholic, am bound to support as a member of the Catholic Faith. In the end, is the issue of whether a Pope can be female, or whether priests could be married more important than the teachings of the Church on Salvation, Grace and the way to Heaven? The traditions, the rites, why are they such obstacles?

This is probably the worst post that I have ever read on BGP, sorry to disrespect.

:banana:

 

Ok, it was little over the top. I was quite angry at the time. But I still think that Ratzinger's view on other churches is destructive to the whole body of Christ.

So....those of whom your faith consider to have a higher knowledge of God are not to be respected?

 

Peter was a go-between between the people and Christ. Anyone who imparts the message of God to His people is a go-between. In essence, your minister is a go-between. There are people who are called to "spread the Word". Wouldn't those be go-betweens? The signs of reverence are traditions of respect for the man we know to have a higher calling. Traditions do not superced true Faith in God.

Peter was not a go-between. That's like saying my high school civics teacher is a go-between from myself to my congressman. Peter was a teacher, not some type of God antenna. The Bible makes it quite clear that we need no intermediary. Yet the Holy Spirit will intercede for us in those times that we can only cry out in anguish and not know for what to pray. Christ came to earth to end the role of the priest to serve as a go-between.

mexitucky, I don't even know how to respond to your questions anymore. It's not because of the questions, but because you've stated that you are Catholic, and I have a hard time understanding why you ask them. I feel that you must know what the Church teaches, and why. I see that you don't agree with what the Church teaches, so then I wonder why you choose to remain Catholic.

 

I'm not saying that questioning is wrong. But your posts have such a tone of animosity toward the Catholic Church, that it astounds me.

 

That is the nicer way of saying what I said earlier. Thank you rockmom.

Well, find the word "Catholic" or "Baptist" in the bible.

 

The word "Catholic" is much older than the concept of Christian denominations. The word simply means "universal." Catholics didn't set out one day and decide to call themselves such, it simply became the nominative representation of the Church once it began to splinter. It is not a title, it is a description.

I didn't say he was wrong. I said that he, as a Catholic, is duty bound to obey, regardless.

Obey who? Scripture? The Pope?

 

I see the Pope, personally, as no different as the minister who leads my church. I know Catholics view him differently but I think in reality he is no different than Minister Bob at 1st Baptist.

 

And I would not blindly follow/obey Minister Bob without support of Scripture. And I don't think any Christian should blindly follow/obey any of the denominational leaders without support of Scripture.

You completely misunderstand. IMO, DO have to "earn" your way to Heaven. Otherwise, I would have to believe that there would be no Ten Commandments, no Beatitudes. Those Biblical passages very clearly outline the "work" we have to do to see the Face of God.

 

And therein lies the single biggest difference in Catholics and Protestants. :thumb:

I know this: I am in no way qualified to make the distinction of "error" when it comes to doctrine. The men we trust to do so are studied in theology....more than most any other men alive. They are experts in the Canon of the Church. There is no point within the doctrine of the Church that I feel that they do not have a greater theological and philosophical understanding of than any individual Catholic lay person.

 

HHSDad, how is the Church getting in the way of the most basic and important tenets? At this point, Pope Benedict is obviously trying to reinforce those. Granted, we have a mission, but not in the old-style Crusades or missions where our primary goal was to convert, by force if necessary.

I believe it is important for each of us to be well-versed and studied in Scripture. Too many times evil people (and this in no way is limited to one denomination) who have claimed to be well-versed have misled groups of people who relied on a handful or single person to lead them in regards to Scripture.

 

I think it is very dangerous for Christians to pass off the studying of Scripture onto others and then the others make the decisions of faith for them. My elders make a decision, I want to know the Scriptures they used to come to that decision so that I can study them for my own.

Mexi, preists are men. Human men. They are prone to the same temptations and falls into those temptations as lay people. However, to accept a calling to priesthood, one must be willing to forego family, and all material gain. Their life is completely devoted to God. Find me a man with a family that can give his undivided self to God and His works. Not that men (and women) can't give of themselves unselfishly and wholeheartedly....but to give utterly?

Seems you would have excluded several if not most of the 12 disciples with this criteria.

Lets go back to the Bible. (Its a known fact that the Jehovah Witnesses will bypass my house) This verse is long but I'll break it down.

Its in Phillippians 1:12:18

 

First look at Paul more than say Peter. Peter was a firsthand disciple of Jesus, but Paul was chosen by Jesus to carry on his work. Paul traveled to share the ministry of Jesus and Pauls letters to the churches dealt with issues and problems in those churches.

 

Paul gave advice, rebuked, and lifted up the churches (made up of who?) Paul even rebuked Peter because Peter had gone back and started acting out with the Old Law Jewish customs.

 

Now to the verses..."now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the Gospel. I'm in chains for Christ. Because of these chains brothers have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously.

 

"It is true some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do it in love, knowing that I am put here to defend the Gospel."

 

Verse 18..."what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way Christ is being preached".

 

The Pope has to like the Fact even though he doesn't think we are right...we are still teaching about Christ. The JWs, Mormans, Islam, teach a different "Gospel" and could be doomed.