To clarify my position, if the Holy Spirit is not working in you whether you hear the word from a minister, a pope, the guy on the streetcorner wearing a rainbow wig and holding up a John 3:16 sign or read it on your own, it doesn't matter as you are not going to get it.

 

The Holy Spirit is the one that provides understanding.

To clarify my position, if the Holy Spirit is not working in you whether you hear the word from a minister, a pope, the guy on the streetcorner wearing a rainbow wig and holding up a John 3:16 sign or read it on your own, it doesn't matter as you are not going to get it.

 

The Holy Spirit is the one that provides understanding.

 

And yet I always end up confused on the churches teachings.

As for obeying our teachers, priests, etc...if it is a godly person, who is teaching you correctly from scripture, then we are commanded to do so...we should respect, honor and learn from them. I think church members should study the Bible earnestly themselves, but it's important to have a "teacher" to turn to with questions. It's also important for the church to study the Bible, so they can hold their teachers/preachers accountable to the truth, instead of setting themselves up to be easily mislead by someone who twists the scripture and distorts the truth.

 

As for our command...

 

Hebrews 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

How about calling Peter a Disciple or an Apostle?

 

This means he had special power or gifts to use to help spread the Gospel...Philip also had this power and was able to speak to the Ethiopian in his native tongue. This is the gifts of Tongues. God (holy spirit) sent Philip to the eunuch and the Gospel would be sent to Africa.

 

This eunuch was a powerful figure in his native land. He had come to Judah to worship. Many people were coming there searching to hear the new Gospel.

 

With Philip it shows that the holy spirit does not eliminate the need for human teachers and the need for teachers today.

And yet I always end up confused on the churches teachings.

I think all new Christians should go through a Romans class. It clears up a lot of issues. The problem with all Judeo-Christian religions is in their interpretation. You can look at the doctrine of almost anyone of them and find reams of logical interpretation of the scripture that doesn't necessarily agree with the next church's interpretation. Look at the Jewish Torah, which is the first five books of the Old Testament, and the Talmud, which is 13,000 pages of discussion and interpretation of the Torah.

 

Your church may be right about some things wrong about others. Regardless of these interpretations, there are basic tenets that should be imperative to all Christian bodies.

 

- For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

 

- God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved).

 

- For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

 

- For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

- That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I think all new Christians should go through a Romans class. It clears up a lot of issues. The problem with all Judeo-Christian religions is in their interpretation. You can look at the doctrine of almost anyone of them and find reams of logical interpretation of the scripture that doesn't necessarily agree with the next church's interpretation. Look at the Jewish Torah, which is the first five books of the Old Testament, and the Talmud, which is 13,000 pages of discussion and interpretation of the Torah.

 

Your church may be right about some things wrong about others. Regardless of these interpretations, there are basic tenets that should be imperative to all Christian bodies.

 

- For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved

 

- God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved).

 

- For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

 

- For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

- That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

Good Post, and I add that in Matt 7:13-14 says this, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." So without judging anybody in particular, I find it hard to believe that all "interpretations" will make it in the end. We just have to believe that our particular "interpretation" is the one that Christ intended.

AHS...Study, Study, Study...ask questions. Some Churches confuse me too.

Good Post, and I add that in Matt 7:13-14 says this, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." So without judging anybody in particular, I find it hard to believe that all "interpretations" will make it in the end. We just have to believe that our particular "interpretation" is the one that Christ intended.

 

If their interpretations are grounded in what HHSDad posted, then the other differences are of a secondary nature, IMO. I think something that fits more with what you said is the fact that not everyone who professes to be a follower of Christ truly is. No person or church has all the correct answers. That's why we continue to read and study the Bible and seek guidance from God. But, if they preach the deity and virgin birth of Christ, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, that salvation is through repentance and faith in Christ, and that He is the only way to salvation...then they have the means to salvation.

 

Hypothetically, suppose God showed us how a church should look when it's operating 100% correctly, do you think we would say to some other denomination, "See, I told you we were right about that."

 

I doubt it...more than likely, we'd be thinking, "Wow...we need to be changing some things."

I know this will disappoint you all, but what you've posted in response to my questions only strengthens my belief in the role of the Pontiff.

I know this will disappoint you all, but what you've posted in response to my questions only strengthens my belief in the role of the Pontiff.

Who?

If their interpretations are grounded in what HHSDad posted, then the other differences are of a secondary nature, IMO. I think something that fits more with what you said is the fact that not everyone who professes to be a follower of Christ truly is. No person or church has all the correct answers. That's why we continue to read and study the Bible and seek guidance from God. But, if they preach the deity and virgin birth of Christ, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, that salvation is through repentance and faith in Christ, and that He is the only way to salvation...then they have the means to salvation.

 

Hypothetically, suppose God showed us how a church should look when it's operating 100% correctly, do you think we would say to some other denomination, "See, I told you we were right about that."

 

I doubt it...more than likely, we'd be thinking, "Wow...we need to be changing some things."

 

I wouldn't ever say, "I told you so", that would be against what the bible teaches and judgmental. But I do believe that God did describe how a church should be organized and operate in the bible.

Who?

 

All of you! :lol:

I know this will disappoint you all, but what you've posted in response to my questions only strengthens my belief in the role of the Pontiff.

 

I don't have a real problem with a de facto leader. I have a problem with kissing rings and feet, etc...borderline worship, if you will...placing titles and honors upon them that they shouldn't have...attributing powers to them that they don't have. That's all.

 

I respect and look up to my pastor, but you'll never see me kiss his ring or his feet. You'll never hear me say he is infallible in any way, shape or form and you'll never hear me say he has the power to forgive sins. :thumb:

I know this will disappoint you all, but what you've posted in response to my questions only strengthens my belief in the role of the Pontiff.

And how do you view his role? I know you've stated it in various posts, but could you summarize for us?

I wouldn't ever say, "I told you so", that would be against what the bible teaches and judgmental. But I do believe that God did describe how a church should be organized and operate in the bible.

 

I do too, but because we as humans are imperfect beings, you aren't going to find a church that is reaching it's full potential, IMO.

 

As the old saying goes, "If you find a perfect church, don't join it. You'll just ruin it."