So, in order to be saved and go to heaven, you must "do" all the things listed above? This to me, is a works salvation, not a grace salvation. Grace requires nothing but a sincere repentance and acceptance of God's gift. While we as Christians perform good works, it is not to receive salvation but out of love for our Lord who gave His life as a sacrifice for our sins. We are not "working" our way to heaven; that is a free gift, Jesus paid it ALL.

 

This is what Catholics believe. The argument hasn't been who's better, Catholics or Protestants. The argument has been...there are issues, should they be dealt with or not?

This is a very concerning stance he is taking, at least to me it is....I will not ever hear another MAN tell me that others who live good lives, and worship the same God and Jesus Christ that I do.....are not on the same page...

 

Religion is man made, faith is not.

This is a very concerning stance he is taking, at least to me it is....I will not ever hear another MAN tell me that others who live good lives, and worship the same God and Jesus Christ that I do.....are not on the same page...

 

Religion is man made, faith is not.

 

Now you've done it.

So, in order to be saved and go to heaven, you must "do" all the things listed above? This to me, is a works salvation, not a grace salvation. Grace requires nothing but a sincere repentance and acceptance of God's gift. While we as Christians perform good works, it is not to receive salvation but out of love for our Lord who gave His life as a sacrifice for our sins. We are not "working" our way to heaven; that is a free gift, Jesus paid it ALL.

 

I don't understand....you have an issue with following the 10 Commandments? :lol:

 

Some people in this thread are deliberately focused on tearing down the structure of the Catholic Church, or focused on details that, in the scope of things, are inconsequential.

 

How many people do you know that profess to be good Christians, but do nothing to help the needy, support their church or talk trash about everyone them? These "rules" of the Catholic church clearly spell out that it is not acceptable. They in effect give us a cheat sheet into acceptable behavior.

 

Your post completely takes only the last part of information I posted, and ignores the information about loving God above all else, and loving your neighbor. It completely ignores the call to believe in the teachings of Jesus, the Incarnation, the Holy Trinity et al.

 

You zoomed in on one part of the whole picture and pronounced the sum to be erroneous.

This is a very concerning stance he is taking, at least to me it is....I will not ever hear another MAN tell me that others who live good lives, and worship the same God and Jesus Christ that I do.....are not on the same page...

 

Religion is man made, faith is not.

 

Do you pray the Apostle's Creed everytime you go to Mass?

Do you pray the Apostle's Creed everytime you go to Mass?

 

I don't know about him, but I don't.

 

I pray the Nicene Creed. :banana:

I don't know about him, but I don't.

 

I pray the Nicene Creed. :banana:

 

I thought I'd put it in English for those who are Latin-resistant.

So...I ran across this. Maybe it will help clear some things up:

 

 

Catholic Facts and General Knowledge

 

 

Catholic Belief

1. To gain the happiness of heaven we must know, love, and serve God in this world. Man must know, love and serve God in a supernatural manner in order to gain happiness of heaven. Man is raised to the supernatural order only by grace, a free gift of God.
   
2. We learn to know, love, and serve God from Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who teaches us through the Catholic Church.
   
3. In order to be saved, all persons who have attained the use of reason must believe explicitly that God exist and that he rewards the good and punishes the wicked; in practice they must also believe in the mysteries of the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation.
   
4. By the Blessed Trinity we mean one and the same God in three divine persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
   
5. By the Incarnation is meant that the Son of God, retaining His divine nature, took to Himself a human nature, that is, a body and soul like ours.
   
6. The Church is the congregation of all baptized persons united in the same true faith, the same sacrifice, and the same sacraments, under the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff and the bishops in communion with him.
   
7. We find the chief truths taught by Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church in the Apostles' Creed.

The Chief Commandments or Laws, of the Church

1. To assist at Mass on all Sundays and holy days of obligation.
   
2. To fast and abstain on the days appointed.
   
3. To confess our sins at least once a year.
   
4. To receive Holy Communion during the Easter time.
   
5. To contribute to the support of the Church.
   
6. To observe the laws of the Church concerning marriage.

Catholic Belief

1-5. I of course agree with

6. The Church is the ekkelsia of all those saved by grace through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and have accepted him as their Lord and Savior. No other authority than Jesus Christ though the intervention of the Holy Spirit is necessary.

7. One of my favorite Contemporary Christian songs is Creed by Rich Mullins. The lyrics are taken almost directly from the Apostles' Creed.

 

The Chief Commandments or Laws, of the Church

1. This should be a desire of the parishner, not a church commandment.
   
2. Fasting is a good thing, but I'm not so sure about having appointed days for it. Does the Catholic church even have any real fasting?
   
3. I'd have left off the "at least once a year". I also think face-to-face confession would be better than the impersonal confessional. Also, what is the Church's stance on confessing straight to God?
   
4. I'm pretty sure that no church has a good handle on this one. :lol: However, it'll do.
   
5. Agreed
   
6. To observe the teachings of the Bible concerning marriage.

I thought I'd put it in English for those who are Latin-resistant.

They're not the same thing.

They're not the same thing.

 

Nicene Creed

 

We believe in one God,

the Father, the Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth,

of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,

the only Son of God,

eternally begotten of the Father,

God from God, light from light,

true God from true God,

begotten, not made,

of one Being with the Father;

through him all things were made.

For us and for our salvation

he came down from heaven,

was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary

and became truly human.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

he suffered death and was buried.

On the third day he rose again

in accordance with the Scriptures;

he ascended into heaven

and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,

and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],

who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We look for the resurrection of the dead,

and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Creator of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell. [see Calvin]

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven

and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,

whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and life everlasting.

Amen.

^ So, what's your point?

^ So, what's your point?

 

I think her point is that, while one is longer and more detailed , they essentially say the same thing.

.....

 

The Chief Commandments or Laws, of the Church

1. This should be a desire of the parishner, not a church commandment.
   
2. Fasting is a good thing, but I'm not so sure about having appointed days for it. Does the Catholic church even have any real fasting?
   
3. I'd have left off the "at least once a year". I also think face-to-face confession would be better than the impersonal confessional. Also, what is the Church's stance on confessing straight to God?
   
4. I'm pretty sure that no church has a good handle on this one. :lol: However, it'll do.
   
5. Agreed
   
6. To observe the teachings of the Bible concerning marriage.

 

1. I'll save for another time.

2. Lent is a time of fasting and abstinence. "Real" fasting isn't as prevelant these days as abstinence.

3. All parishes I know offer face-to-face confession. Me? I prefer the old way. I'll leave the 2nd part, because I think it's a good subject on it's own.

4. ???

5.

7. What is the difference?

I think her point is that, while one is longer and more detailed , they essentially say the same thing.

Was I asking you? Was I? Typical Catholic always butting in. :irked:

Was I asking you? Was I? Typical Catholic always butting in. :irked:

 

He was right, though. By the way...PepRock and I are the Two Crusaders, defending the Faith, being attacked on all sides with verbal maces. In other words, we got each other's backs!