July 11, 200719 yr The instruction was in the Catholic Doctrine, the belief that the Catholic Church is the One, True Church. I guess I completely missed the era where this wasn't the Catholic belief. I must have been asleep. :lol: How is it egocentric to reinforce existing doctrine? I know that this is the Catholic belief. I also do not know how this influences my devotion to God and Jesus. It doesn't b/c I don't care what the guy next to me believes as long as his beliefs create a moral springboard by which he positively impacts his world. To me, what the Pope stated did not need to be stated. It was an attempt to consolidate his position in the church, his authority that he fears he is losing.
July 11, 200719 yr Mexitucky, there's so much in what you say that is similar to the way a child feels of his parents rules or guidelines. In a way, that's exactly what the Vatican is to the lay man...the parent so to speak. The guidance and the "rules enforcer". Because you don't personally agree doesn't mean the Church is wrong. And, you sometimes have to reconcile yourself that the Church is not an entity to bend to the will of what we want. They are here to enforce and uphold the will of God, and we must obey. Exactly my point, how do we know that this is the will of God??? Why can't married men lead a parish??? I'm not asking the church to make premarital sex ok. What I am asking is for the church to answer for its inability to change. Recycling priests who have been A) Inadequate or B) Felons doesn't do us any good. A lot of those priests are great Scholars, but when it comes to running the entity of the parish, they are incompetent. Think it doesn't happen? Take a trip up to Newport, I'll show you around.
July 11, 200719 yr Loaded question. Is there such a thing as a bad Pope? Yes, there have been bad Popes throughout the course of history. But I do not mean that in the ways that impact the teachings of the Church. There have been men who manipulated their position for personal gain. Not being as "up" on historical context, I may need to defer the complete answer to your question till after I can research it, or my trusty friend Bert can help me out, or PepRock arrives. :lol: And, 5 Wide, I'm still reading Mary in the New Testament to answer you from previously.
July 11, 200719 yr Loaded question. Is there such a thing as a bad Pope? YES!!! Look through history. The middle ages, the renaisance...strife with corrupt Popes. The papacy supported Mussolini, supported slavery, supported the inquisition. The papacy watched as Jews and Muslims were kicked out of Spain in the late 15th century. The papacy was non-committal on the Hollocaust. The infallibility of the pope was not handed down by God. It was handed down by a church council.
July 11, 200719 yr Exactly my point, how do we know that this is the will of God??? Why can't married men lead a parish??? I'm not asking the church to make premarital sex ok. What I am asking is for the church to answer for its inability to change. Recycling priests who have been A) Inadequate or B) Felons doesn't do us any good. A lot of those priests are great Scholars, but when it comes to running the entity of the parish, they are incompetent. Think it doesn't happen? Take a trip up to Newport, I'll show you around. This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
July 11, 200719 yr Exactly my point, how do we know that this is the will of God??? Why can't married men lead a parish??? I'm not asking the church to make premarital sex ok. What I am asking is for the church to answer for its inability to change. Recycling priests who have been A) Inadequate or B) Felons doesn't do us any good. A lot of those priests are great Scholars, but when it comes to running the entity of the parish, they are incompetent. Think it doesn't happen? Take a trip up to Newport, I'll show you around. Mexi, preists are men. Human men. They are prone to the same temptations and falls into those temptations as lay people. However, to accept a calling to priesthood, one must be willing to forego family, and all material gain. Their life is completely devoted to God. Find me a man with a family that can give his undivided self to God and His works. Not that men (and women) can't give of themselves unselfishly and wholeheartedly....but to give utterly?
July 11, 200719 yr Mexi, preists are men. Human men. They are prone to the same temptations and falls into those temptations as lay people. However, to accept a calling to priesthood, one must be willing to forego family, and all material gain. Their life is completely devoted to God. Find me a man with a family that can give his undivided self to God and His works. Not that men (and women) can't give of themselves unselfishly and wholeheartedly....but to give utterly? How do you know that this wouldn't work? Nobody has tried it. Soon we'll be down to retired priests taking care of masses and lay people overlooking everyday business for the parishes. The larger parishes will have priests, but the smaller parishes will be shut down. This is the whole point. There is absolutely no evidence that apostles were not married, none. We just know that no wives were mentioned by name. Again...man made rule. Protestants seem to have ministers giving pretty utterly to their churches.
July 11, 200719 yr Yes, there have been bad Popes throughout the course of history. But I do not mean that in the ways that impact the teachings of the Church. There have been men who manipulated their position for personal gain. Not being as "up" on historical context, I may need to defer the complete answer to your question till after I can research it, or my trusty friend Bert can help me out, or PepRock arrives. :lol: And, 5 Wide, I'm still reading Mary in the New Testament to answer you from previously. I didn't know it would take that long to read...there isn't a whole lot there...:sssh: Just having a little fun with you...like you do to me from time to time.
July 11, 200719 yr How do you know that this wouldn't work? Nobody has tried it. Soon we'll be down to retired priests taking care of masses and lay people overlooking everyday business for the parishes. The larger parishes will have priests, but the smaller parishes will be shut down. This is the whole point. There is absolutely no evidence that apostles were not married, none. We just know that no wives were mentioned by name. Again...man made rule. Protestants seem to have ministers giving pretty utterly to their churches. Here in Louisville, we've faced the same shortage of priests. The Archdioces has formed clusters. and in some cases, combined parishes. The issue of the shortage of priests is usually two-fold. There is a declining number of men seeking priesthood, and there is an ever shifting geographic demographic within the Archdiocese. Primarily the shift has been from the west and south to the east. The Archdioces cannot maintain a priest or even a parish at many existing locations, because of the declining membership of the parishes. The clusters and combined parishes allow for the consolidation of services (not just Mass services, but service works as well), and serve the needs of the smaller congregations. There are many ways to skin a cat. I don't necessarily agree that allowing married men to become priests is the right way to skin this one.
July 11, 200719 yr Those who didn't: Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal.... But to answer your question, yes. You follow the doctrine of the Church. You follow the teachings. Why do you think we have Catholic schools? It ain't just the football! Not really my point, but, oh well...I set myself up too well for that one. :thumb: :lol:
July 11, 200719 yr How do you know that this wouldn't work? Nobody has tried it. Soon we'll be down to retired priests taking care of masses and lay people overlooking everyday business for the parishes. The larger parishes will have priests, but the smaller parishes will be shut down. This is the whole point. There is absolutely no evidence that apostles were not married, none. We just know that no wives were mentioned by name. Again...man made rule. Protestants seem to have ministers giving pretty utterly to their churches. OK...to be blunt, how many married men are going to agree to celibacy?
July 11, 200719 yr Those who didn't: Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal.... But to answer your question, yes. You follow the doctrine of the Church. You follow the teachings. Why do you think we have Catholic schools? It ain't just the football! To brainwash the students before they get too old and turn to the "darkside" (aka Protestantism)...
July 11, 200719 yr How do you know that this wouldn't work? Nobody has tried it. Soon we'll be down to retired priests taking care of masses and lay people overlooking everyday business for the parishes. The larger parishes will have priests, but the smaller parishes will be shut down. This is the whole point. There is absolutely no evidence that apostles were not married, none. We just know that no wives were mentioned by name. Again...man made rule. Protestants seem to have ministers giving pretty utterly to their churches. Actually there was a time,in the early church, where priests were allowed to marry. The change was made so as to allow a priest to wholly dedicate himself to God. Much as communion was originally given in the hands, the method was switched to directly onto the tongue on account of people sneaking out the transubstantiated hosts and trying to use it at home as a sort of "cure all" because it it was the body and blood of our lord. The church, seeing that no longer being an issue changed that particular practice back.
July 11, 200719 yr OK...to be blunt, how many married men are going to agree to celibacy? In some cases how is it any different? :sssh:
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