Having grown up on Welfare (food stamps, other assistance), gives one a very unique perspective on this issue, especially now, 20 years later, I teach many a High School student that has more money in thier bank account than my family of 4 had earned in a year. My parents were just out of High School when I was born, and although a High School Diploma was worth more than it is today, our family still needed assistance. My father worked 2 jobs to pull us to a level of income that was too high to recieve the government assistance, and then my younger sister was born. It became a struggle to make ends meet, and so my father quit one of his jobs, thus dropping our total income level to a point where we could recieve the assistance agian. Our family would work ourselves up again, only to struggle more after reaching a certian income rather than being on Welfare. As someone said earlier, the system does not work, but not everyone on the system is responsible for it not working. Eventually through the grace of God, and a lot of hard work, our family was able to reach a comfortable lower middle class income life. My mother was able to finish college, and in the past 8 years, my father has started and run a sucessful small buisness as a second job. The system worked for us because we made it work for us. Not every family would have the work ethic it takes to truly make it sucessfully off of Welfare. My experience understands why some would choose to cheat the system(think about how many people you know who fudge theier tax returns) but I get angry at those who do, because we did it the right way. Whatever your feelings are on welfare, I would suggest that you really take a deep look into the lives of those who are in need, and volunteer. The best assistance comes not from a government check, but from the time and love of someone who just wants to help.

 

Great post and insight, CC. It is easy for those with an outsider's view to point fingers and come up with a "solution". Understanding takes more time, so many just don't even try.

 

I honestly don't know the best solution. I do know that I try to play a small part. As a teacher in a school with a large number of students on free and reduced lunch, I am able to influence some students to break the chain of generational poverty. For these students, 1.) they need to see that it CAN be done. They need role models and examples in their lives. They are not going to get that unless someone outside of their family makes that attempt. My family was on government assistance for some time (and yes, both of my parents were working at the time!), so I can be an example for them. 2.) They need to find out HOW it can be done. This includes coming to value education and the opportunity it provides. They need to know how to apply for college and financial aid (a form of government assistance that I bet quite a few people on here have received). They need to know how to find a support structure in college that promotes their success - professors' office hours, study groups, tutoring sessions, campus work programs. 3.) For the most part, they just need to know that there is someone NOT in generational poverty that cares about them. If the only people that care are in poverty, why would you want to be anywhere else?

 

I am able to reach a few kids. I am proud to see them go on the college and become successful and able to break the chain. Too bad that the "powers that be" do not respect the important task of being a teacher! But I guess that is a topic for another thread. :sssh:

Great post and insight, CC. It is easy for those with an outsider's view to point fingers and come up with a "solution". Understanding takes more time, so many just don't even try.

 

I honestly don't know the best solution. I do know that I try to play a small part. As a teacher in a school with a large number of students on free and reduced lunch, I am able to influence some students to break the chain of generational poverty. For these students, 1.) they need to see that it CAN be done. They need role models and examples in their lives. They are not going to get that unless someone outside of their family makes that attempt. My family was on government assistance for some time (and yes, both of my parents were working at the time!), so I can be an example for them. 2.) They need to find out HOW it can be done. This includes coming to value education and the opportunity it provides. They need to know how to apply for college and financial aid (a form of government assistance that I bet quite a few people on here have received). They need to know how to find a support structure in college that promotes their success - professors' office hours, study groups, tutoring sessions, campus work programs. 3.) For the most part, they just need to know that there is someone NOT in generational poverty that cares about them. If the only people that care are in poverty, why would you want to be anywhere else?

 

I am able to reach a few kids. I am proud to see them go on the college and become successful and able to break the chain. Too bad that the "powers that be" do not respect the important task of being a teacher! But I guess that is a topic for another thread. :sssh:

 

And to echo what you say, being able to teach the lessons to others that can be learned from situations would help all. I am not ashamed that my family was on Welfare, because some of the lessons about hard work and responsibility I was able to learn growing up were directly due to being on Welfare. Now if I can help others learn those same lessons without being on Welfare then it's a positive step.

If they can’t be productive members of society as a civilian what makes you think they could do any better in the military?

Serving in the military should be looked at as an honor and privilege and should be reserved for those that want to be there…

 

:thumb: Although a lot of people pay lip service to them, I don't think our young people who serve get the respect they deserve. Many, if not most, enlisted to obtain money to continue their education. They are bright, courageous, and dedicated. Protecting our freedoms is far to important to be a dumping ground those without the ambition nor skills to make it in normal society. Perhaps this would be a good topic to discuss in it's own thread.

Having grown up on Welfare (food stamps, other assistance), gives one a very unique perspective on this issue, especially now, 20 years later, I teach many a High School student that has more money in thier bank account than my family of 4 had earned in a year. My parents were just out of High School when I was born, and although a High School Diploma was worth more than it is today, our family still needed assistance. My father worked 2 jobs to pull us to a level of income that was too high to recieve the government assistance, and then my younger sister was born. It became a struggle to make ends meet, and so my father quit one of his jobs, thus dropping our total income level to a point where we could recieve the assistance agian. Our family would work ourselves up again, only to struggle more after reaching a certian income rather than being on Welfare. As someone said earlier, the system does not work, but not everyone on the system is responsible for it not working. Eventually through the grace of God, and a lot of hard work, our family was able to reach a comfortable lower middle class income life. My mother was able to finish college, and in the past 8 years, my father has started and run a sucessful small buisness as a second job. The system worked for us because we made it work for us. Not every family would have the work ethic it takes to truly make it sucessfully off of Welfare. My experience understands why some would choose to cheat the system(think about how many people you know who fudge theier tax returns) but I get angry at those who do, because we did it the right way. Whatever your feelings are on welfare, I would suggest that you really take a deep look into the lives of those who are in need, and volunteer. The best assistance comes not from a government check, but from the time and love of someone who just wants to help.

Congratulations to your family for working hard, your father and mother are what’s great about this country and proof that hard work will eventually pay off. Your family is not the type of family I’m speaking against, your’s is the type welfare was intended for and helped. I’m glad for you and your family that things have gotten better.

Congratulations to your family for working hard, your father and mother are what’s great about this country and proof that hard work will eventually pay off. Your family is not the type of family I’m speaking against, your’s is the type welfare was intended for and helped. I’m glad for you and your family that things have gotten better.

 

But how do you suggest we design a test to distinguish between the Covercorner family and the type of family you describe?

Having grown up on Welfare (food stamps, other assistance), gives one a very unique perspective on this issue, especially now, 20 years later, I teach many a High School student that has more money in thier bank account than my family of 4 had earned in a year. My parents were just out of High School when I was born, and although a High School Diploma was worth more than it is today, our family still needed assistance. My father worked 2 jobs to pull us to a level of income that was too high to recieve the government assistance, and then my younger sister was born. It became a struggle to make ends meet, and so my father quit one of his jobs, thus dropping our total income level to a point where we could recieve the assistance agian. Our family would work ourselves up again, only to struggle more after reaching a certian income rather than being on Welfare. As someone said earlier, the system does not work, but not everyone on the system is responsible for it not working. Eventually through the grace of God, and a lot of hard work, our family was able to reach a comfortable lower middle class income life. My mother was able to finish college, and in the past 8 years, my father has started and run a sucessful small buisness as a second job. The system worked for us because we made it work for us. Not every family would have the work ethic it takes to truly make it sucessfully off of Welfare. My experience understands why some would choose to cheat the system(think about how many people you know who fudge theier tax returns) but I get angry at those who do, because we did it the right way. Whatever your feelings are on welfare, I would suggest that you really take a deep look into the lives of those who are in need, and volunteer. The best assistance comes not from a government check, but from the time and love of someone who just wants to help.

 

:thumb:

Covercorner makes a really excellent illustration of why some people are seemingly "choosing" to stay on welfare. There is no graduated level of assistance. So, you are either receive welfare benefits, or you don't. Granted there are some that are graduated, but the system needs to be "tweaked". There needs to be a degree of aid for those that are between needing full or almost full benefits, and those who are just above the income line to receive benefits. IMO, (and this is from experience), the absolute worst off are those who are literally a few dollars above the poverty line. Their choices are so limited...they can quit what work they do have to receive benefits, or they can take on another job, or try hard to move up the salary scale at their current job....any way they choose, other than quitting, takes a lot of time and rarely (if ever) can a family in that situation wait for better things to come.

Haven't read the entire thread but I didn't feel the need to to come to the conclusion that this is the worst idea, possibly ever...

My cousin had a baby that pooped in the womb. The baby swallowed the poop and caused severe brain damage. He is in his 20's now but still with the mentality of a 3 year old. His medicine 20 years ago was in the thousands per month. (5 figures thousands)

 

My cousin worked as a salad bar manager before the birth. She went to the government and said that she wanted to go back to work but obviously couldn't afford the medicine on her Shoney's salary. They told her if she went back to work, she wouldn't receive help with the medicine and the cost would be her own.

 

What a load of crap and an example of someone the government was forcing to stay on welfare.

But how do you suggest we design a test to distinguish between the Covercorner family and the type of family you describe?

Why design a test? It's obvious who’s trying and who isn’t.

"Are there no poorhouses? Are there no jails?" - Ebenezer Scrooge

That's what I was thinking too. Although I was leaning a little more toward the "Oliver Twist" model.

 

 

 

There really is a crack in the system that a lot of people fall through. Actually there are two completely different problems with the system. First, there are people who can't get off of welfare/disability and other forms of public aid because there is no safety net. The benefits stop at a certain income point, and if you don't make it...tough luck.

 

Worse than that, at a certain income level (I know this to be true of SSI anyway) you lose your state medical coverage. This hole in the system traps an enormous number of people who would otherwise be out trying to earn their keep. I've seen it happen more times than I can count. I watched an entire company go under -- and lost my job -- because they had the audacity to try to hire a predominantly disabled workforce.

 

There is a program called PASS for people on SSI that allows them to make a certain income, provided the extra income goes toward expenses related to their training or education. I don't know if there is a similar program for those on welfare. But it isn't enough. It stops too short.

 

We need to find a way to encourage and support people who can (and want to) go to work. Isn't it better to pay a little and support a family for a while, than to support them fully, at a much greater cost, forever?

 

The problem at the other end of the spectrum is the fact that it is too easy to abuse the system. We do have to support those who want to work; but we also need to coax those who might rather sit on their collective tush and sponge off the public. There has to be both a sustainable carrot and a plausible stick -- and we have to be willing to use both!

 

There are a lot of people on public assistance that should be out pulling their own weight. Some of them would like nothing more, and some would like nothing less.

Why design a test? It's obvious who’s trying and who isn’t.

 

 

Not to a bureaucrat. It must be spelled out in black and white.

Why design a test? It's obvious who’s trying and who isn’t.

 

It's not. I held your beliefs 10 years ago, I do not now. I'm telling you RTS, you paint with too broad a brush.

How long is too long? How many generations are too many? Welfare cant be eliminated completely, but what is a realistic answer?

It's not. I held your beliefs 10 years ago, I do not now. I'm telling you RTS, you paint with too broad a brush.

How so? Enlighten me, please. I think you and a few others are talking about something different than I am. We're not talking about people like Covercorner and his family here. We're talking about dregs.

I'm telling you it's easy to tell a vast majority of the ones that are just milking it. It's not that tough to see. It's also pretty easy to tell if kids are going to school or not. Fill me in on what's so difficult. There is nothing wrong with an orphanage for these kids, honestly you do them an injustice by leaving them where they are. They have no way out that way, at least my way they have a chance to become something.