O.K., here is some NEW information that I have learned, that may better help to answer some of these questions that have been posed. My purpose here is to help answer some of these questions publicly so there is not so much rumour and confusion, and also to detail several areas where my speculation was WRONG.

 

The following is a copy of a responsive e-mail from a KHSAA official to an inquiry posed by a representative of a particular school board. I have omitted the names of the persons and the schools.

 

[Name of school representative],

 

I have been asked by the staff at KDE to respond to your eariler inquiry regarding the athletic eligibility proposal passed yesterday by the Kentucky Board of Education. Please understand that there are a myriad of interpretations to be published and discussed prior to the full implementation with the 7th grade class of 2008-2009, but I believe I can clarify your inquiry as the rule is written now and provided it is not further altered through the regulatory process.

 

You have asked a multi-fold question, so let me tell you the answers to both parts. If you need other clarification, please feel free to call on this office anytime.

 

As written, [private middle school] is defined by this rule as a "terminal non public school". As such, the students who leave [private middle school] after grade 8 may, without penalty-

1) attend the public high school in which specific school district their residence lies (in this case [public high school in same county]) or in which the residence lies and there exists a 157.350 (reciprocal) agreement between the residence district school and the member school,

2) attend a diocesean high school within the Diocese based on that diocese restrictions, if they exist. To our knowledge, the Diocese of [city] (unlike for example the Diocese of [different city] which does have some residence and parish restrictions), does not have restrictions, so students in any diocese school in any part of the multi-county diocese would be considered to feed [private high school serving city's Diocese].

3) attend a non-public school with less than 300 students provided that the student and his/her primary family residence is within 30 miles of that school.

4) attend a non-public school with more than 300 students provided the local board of that nonpublic member school has expanded the territory to include those terminal school students and provided that the feeder school and the member school are in the same attendance zone (diocese).

 

The students at these so called terminal schools would have a choice of several school without penalties or restrictions as detailed above and many of the exceptions were crafted by the authors to ensure minimal impact.

 

Students changing after the ninth or subsequent grade are subject to the same grade 7-8 threshold as well.

 

Of course, there is no ineligibility period if the normal Bylaw 6 exceptions apply (moving, divorce, etc.) and a waiver of that rule is granted.

 

For purposes of this dicussion, I would note a couple of things:

 

1. You can contact the KHSAA directly for interpretive questions and they will answer you freely. This is contrary to a lot of the rumours about the KHSAA's "secretiveness," etc. etc.;

 

2. The KHSAA HAS given a lot of thought to this;

 

3. The KHSAA is giving a lot more freedom to student choice than we are giving them credit for. While there remain a lot of questions, this e-mail seems to indicate that they are honoring a) KRS 157.350 comity agreements; b) Diocesan boundaries and c) the school district's defined residence areas. In other words, they are NOT trying to re-define these things for the schools, and need to be given credit for that;

 

4. The KHSAA is looking at the nature of the MIDDLE SCHOOLS, and NOT the nature of the HIGH SCHOOLS, in defining the types of school classifications. This is contrary to what I have said earlier, so I retract it, but frankly, its right there in the rule in plain writing and I should have known better.

 

Of course, the key language in a lot of this is "clarify your inquiry as the rule is written now and provided it is not further altered through the regulatory process."

 

Thoughts?

So is there much difference than what is now going on?

 

My understanding if a student is in MS at Bishop Brossart, they could go to Campbell County or any of the private schools that the diocese says they can go to (NCC, Calvary Christian and/or Bishop Brossart), go to a Silver Grove if they live within 30 miles of Silver Grove, or attend the other NKY private schools (Holy Cross, Heritage, Notre Dame, Cov Cath, Villa Madonna) as long as the diocese has that as an option.

 

The only thing I see this doing is saying you attend Newport, Highlands, Dayton, Bellevue (if they are above 300 enrollment) and you have to set out your freshmen year. Or if you are going to go to a Bracken, Pendleton, Grant County.

 

Am I misreading something here?

So is there much difference than what is now going on?

 

My understanding if a student is in MS at Bishop Brossart, they could go to Campbell County or any of the private schools that the diocese says they can go to (NCC, Calvary Christian and/or Bishop Brossart), go to a Silver Grove if they live within 30 miles of Silver Grove, or attend the other NKY private schools (Holy Cross, Heritage, Notre Dame, Cov Cath, Villa Madonna) as long as the diocese has that as an option.

 

The only thing I see this doing is saying you attend Newport, Highlands, Dayton, Bellevue (if they are above 300 enrollment) and you have to set out your freshmen year. Or if you are going to go to a Bracken, Pendleton, Grant County.

 

Am I misreading something here?

 

I am not sure. It may be, but it depends highly on the facts of those districts.

 

First, the school in my e-mail was classified as a "terminal" non-public school. I don't know whether Brossart middle school is a terminal non-public school or not.

 

Second, the Diocese of Covington has specific restrictions whereas the Diocese in my e-mail did not. That may affect where the students go.

I am for this rule in reards to it's exact meaning...and if we have to have feeder schools and systems there should be some clarification....one, in regards to Trinity and such...OUR feeder system should be the Archdiocese of Louisville no matter how big it's territory is...AND for someone like me where I went to church at St. Albert's but went to public grade school...that should not allow me to be punished from playing at Trinity especially in that I played for Margaret Mary.

O.K., here is some NEW information that I have learned, that may better help to answer some of these questions that have been posed. My purpose here is to help answer some of these questions publicly so there is not so much rumour and confusion, and also to detail several areas where my speculation was WRONG.

 

The following is a copy of a responsive e-mail from a KHSAA official to an inquiry posed by a representative of a particular school board. I have omitted the names of the persons and the schools.

 

[Name of school representative],

 

I have been asked by the staff at KDE to respond to your eariler inquiry regarding the athletic eligibility proposal passed yesterday by the Kentucky Board of Education. Please understand that there are a myriad of interpretations to be published and discussed prior to the full implementation with the 7th grade class of 2008-2009, but I believe I can clarify your inquiry as the rule is written now and provided it is not further altered through the regulatory process.

 

You have asked a multi-fold question, so let me tell you the answers to both parts. If you need other clarification, please feel free to call on this office anytime.

 

As written, [private middle school] is defined by this rule as a "terminal non public school". As such, the students who leave [private middle school] after grade 8 may, without penalty-

1) attend the public high school in which specific school district their residence lies (in this case [public high school in same county]) or in which the residence lies and there exists a 157.350 (reciprocal) agreement between the residence district school and the member school,

2) attend a diocesean high school within the Diocese based on that diocese restrictions, if they exist. To our knowledge, the Diocese of [city] (unlike for example the Diocese of [different city] which does have some residence and parish restrictions), does not have restrictions, so students in any diocese school in any part of the multi-county diocese would be considered to feed [private high school serving city's Diocese].

3) attend a non-public school with less than 300 students provided that the student and his/her primary family residence is within 30 miles of that school.

4) attend a non-public school with more than 300 students provided the local board of that nonpublic member school has expanded the territory to include those terminal school students and provided that the feeder school and the member school are in the same attendance zone (diocese).

 

The students at these so called terminal schools would have a choice of several school without penalties or restrictions as detailed above and many of the exceptions were crafted by the authors to ensure minimal impact.

 

Students changing after the ninth or subsequent grade are subject to the same grade 7-8 threshold as well.

 

Of course, there is no ineligibility period if the normal Bylaw 6 exceptions apply (moving, divorce, etc.) and a waiver of that rule is granted.

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

2 thoughts.

 

First, this proposal contains so many new definitions and newly defined artificial entities that it is confusing for almost anyone. I need 2 highlighters and an underline marker just to follow the logic - and I read complex legal contracts every day. So, if you have to create a whole new lexicon of terms to describe what you are doing then you are getting way to creative.

 

Second, the mean-sprited action of this approach and its complexity show that this proposal has nothing to do with recuiting. Its about inflicting pain to many for the supposed sins of a few. Some think the pain will be felt by the institutions. Thats ludacris. St. X had over 100 players on their FRESHMAN team last year. Does anything think that this proposal will impact that number in any great way? Of course not. So if the goal is to increase competativeness between public and non-public or between metro and rural schools then this proposal fails right out of the chute.

 

Before this proposal takes effect I would like to see the following:

 

- A historical view of the impact of this proposal in terms of raw numbers by county if this proposal were in effect the last 3 school years. i.e. how many freshman would have been prevented from participating in KHSAA sanctioned sports. Does this impact 10 students or 10,000? Does anyone know? Does anyone care? Lets see the cold, hard numbers to asses the impact and where the impact will be.

 

- A study as to the likely long term impact on freshman who are prevented from playing KHSAA sanctioned sports. Will they play as sophomores and beyond? Will they quit the sport? Will they change sports (oh, that probably wont work anyway since they are banned from ALL sports at ALL levels.)? Will they be more likely to commit suicide? Will they lose an opportunity to jump start relations in a new school and in a new social circle? Will they be more likely to drop out? Don't we want to know these things before banning children from sports participation?

So is there much difference than what is now going on?

 

My understanding if a student is in MS at Bishop Brossart, they could go to Campbell County or any of the private schools that the diocese says they can go to (NCC, Calvary Christian and/or Bishop Brossart), go to a Silver Grove if they live within 30 miles of Silver Grove, or attend the other NKY private schools (Holy Cross, Heritage, Notre Dame, Cov Cath, Villa Madonna) as long as the diocese has that as an option.

 

The only thing I see this doing is saying you attend Newport, Highlands, Dayton, Bellevue (if they are above 300 enrollment) and you have to set out your freshmen year. Or if you are going to go to a Bracken, Pendleton, Grant County.

 

Am I misreading something here?

 

From what I can see you are not mis-reading. Using your example, it appears that a student at St. Mary's grade school could after 8th grade attend Campbell Co or Brossart or NCC or CovCath or Notre Dame or Latin or Villa or St. Henry or Holy Cross without any penalty.

It also apprears they could also attend any under 300 students public school without penalties? And any public school that has a reciprocal agreement with Campbell Co. school district without penalties?

If I read that interpretation correctly, then this would affect those who attend a private (non-public) middle school wishing to attend public high school differently than those who attend a public school wanting to switch to a private high school. Then again, if this measure is meant to appease the majority then I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that it would.

Not if you read it. Where the students go will depend on where they went to school in the 7th and 8th grades. That's certainly not the status quo. People who previously had to make choices after grade 8 now have to make them after grade 6. If that adjustment is made, this proposal will not effect students or schools.

 

 

Not all students in one middle school go to the same high school.( Ockerman Middle School feeds both Ryle and Boone high schools)

And I still believe in the end that will not change. But that is just my opinion. I do not think the state BOE will allow middle school districts to be redrawn for athletic eligibility reasons only. Also in Kenton County I think all the middle schools will be considered feeder schools for all of the high schools.

Sounds like a case of be careful what you wish for public schools...

What I do not see is where it says that a middle school can only be a feeder school for 1 high school. But maybe I over looked it somewhere.

Not all students in one middle school go to the same high school.( Ockerman Middle School feeds both Ryle and Boone high schools)

And I still believe in the end that will not change. But that is just my opinion. I do not think the state BOE will allow middle school districts to be redrawn for athletic eligibility reasons only. Also in Kenton County I think all the middle schools will be considered feeder schools for all of the high schools.

 

I am just wondering, does Ockerman middle school belong to a school district that has a high school (or multiple high schools)?

 

I have seen several post talking about one middle school feeding several high schools, and I am not familiar with these schools. In North-Eastern Kentucky (Greenup, Boyd, Carter, Lawrence, ect) all the middle schools are in a school district that has a high school. I just don't know if these middle schools belong to their own district or if they belong to a district that has multiple high schools.

 

Or, are we talking about middle schools that are closer to high schools in other districts? This I understand, much of Greenup Co. district is closer to Raceland and even Russell districts than it is to Greenup Co. high school. Many students go to Wurtland Middle School (One of two Greenup Co. middle schools) then go to Raceland High School.

Sounds like a case of be careful what you wish for public schools...

Absolutely. i can almost hear brer rabbit saying "don't throw me in that briar patch".

Sounds like a case of be careful what you wish for public schools...

Exactly right...they could get burned by getting what they wished for.

What I do not see is where it says that a middle school can only be a feeder school for 1 high school. But maybe I over looked it somewhere.

Isn't in there that i can find either.

Ockerman is in the Boone County school system that currently has 3 high schools. There are 5 middle schools in the system.

 

Conner Middle attend Conner High

Camp Ernst Middle attend Boone County High School, Ryle and Conner

Gray Middle attend Ryle

Ockerman Middle attend Ryle and Boone

RA Jones Middle attend Boone and Ryle

 

5 middle schools feeding 3 high schools

 

So it is obvious that Boone County school system can not have a 1 middle school "feed" 1 high school.

You could not get proper enrollements at each high school. You could not

have 2 feeding 1...2 feeding 1....1 feeding 1. School building size could not support the large numbers of students at 2 schools and small a number of students at one school.