I didn't even waste time reading this thread but here's my post:

 

South Park= :creepy: and :eek:

On at 9:00 PM again last night. So the late night viewing only aimed at adults argument is officially blown out of the water by Comedy Central itself.

I think you missed the underlying social implications. That scene was a cleverly crafted metaphor for the failings of our educational system and a biting commentary on the deviant social paradigm promoted by an avaricious media megalopoly...

 

...and fire prevention.

Well I don't even understand your post so it might all be over my head.:thumb:

But no matter how much you do you will never end all evil in the world or stop every bad thing from happening from someone who has no help. Even if you could, the idea that "fart jokes" and cussing are wrong is still your opinion, not divine instruction.

 

P.S. You would need to watch an entire episode of South Park to get the social satire part. I also find it ironic that you were flipping between a show involving blatant violence, killing, and destruction and another involving foul words and you've only chosen to condemn one of them.

 

P.S.S. I'm a huge 24 fan, don't get the wrong idea.

 

 

 

What if Larry Jr. is walking down the street and overhears a telephone conversation where someone says something crude, what if someone stubs their toe around little Larry and he hears them mutter a foul word. When Larry begins High School he will undoubtedly face an onslaught of every wild thought that runs through adolescents' heads. He might as well be prepared for it, understand it, and able to use his own discretion about it or he will certainly get the wrong idea and may even join in.

The fart jokes are not my complaint. The disrespect on how they treat each other on the show. The cussing at each other other, the cussing at their teachers, the disrespect for their elders are my concerns and objections.

 

I grew up learning to respect people. This generation is learning to cuss, yell at, disrespect all. They hear it in their music. They see it in their tv shows. They go watch it in movies aimed at them. And you guys see no great concern about it.

 

Just yesterday I stopped one of my students from yelling at and cussing at their grandparents. Told them they WOULD NOT do that while I was responsible for them. They would not treat their grandparents that way.

 

And to repost something from earlier. A student made the comment to me, "What is the problem with it? We see it all the time on television?"

 

Teenagers see it on tv, hear it in their music or watch it in movies and they think it is correct and acceptable because an adult put it in there.

 

With that being said, here is what I have taken from this discussion.

 

We are viewing things in a mentality of when we grew up and not in the reality of today.

 

YES, ABSOLUTELY it would be great if parents were involved in their lives as most of ours probably were. BUT that is not the reality. We cannot assume that what we know from our childhood that is what is being done today.

 

We have a growing problem that we can either say, a)not our responsibility and we can't help it that some parents are not doing their job. An ostrich in the sand mentality and we will face the issues later in life. b)try to do as much as we can to limit children seeing the negative influences as an acceptable format.

The fart jokes are not my complaint. The disrespect on how they treat each other on the show. The cussing at each other other, the cussing at their teachers, the disrespect for their elders are my concerns and objections.

 

I grew up learning to respect people. This generation is learning to cuss, yell at, disrespect all. They hear it in their music. They see it in their tv shows. They go watch it in movies aimed at them. And you guys see no great concern about it.

The thing is, there's a market for it. It's a capatilistic society, and it's not illegal to make money from cussing in TV shows. Do you (yourself) watch any of the normal prime-time programming on network TV?

Just yesterday I stopped one of my students from yelling at and cussing at their grandparents. Told them they WOULD NOT do that while I was responsible for them. They would not treat their grandparents that way.

You did what you should do as a person of authority.

 

And to repost something from earlier. A student made the comment to me, "What is the problem with it? We see it all the time on television?"

 

Opportunity knocks. You can't bring religion into it, but you can point out societal expectations, and the consequences of adopting that behavior on the image they'll present to future potential employers, etc.

 

Teenagers see it on tv, hear it in their music or watch it in movies and they think it is correct and acceptable because an adult put it in there.

What is unacceptable to you and I is different from what others deem unacceptable. I have had some people question my decision to provide my kids with leeway when it comes to their choices in movies and music. But, I honestly felt that forbiding something is more harmful in the long run, than to take the extra steps and do some "teaching".

 

With that being said, here is what I have taken from this discussion.

 

We are viewing things in a mentality of when we grew up and not in the reality of today.

 

Actually, we aren't. What we're doing is realizing that kids today are much more "savvy" than we were. We're still putting the burden on the parents, though. And that should still be true. Parenting is the same...you teach, you discipline....

 

YES, ABSOLUTELY it would be great if parents were involved in their lives as most of ours probably were. BUT that is not the reality. We cannot assume that what we know from our childhood that is what is being done today.

Ladies, I understand what you're saying, but in practice what you want done will infringe upon the rights of YOU and YOUR children eventually. What if there was a decision that no shows that referenced religion in any capacity were allowed on TV, or must be censored to never reflect any religious undercurrents? There goes 7th Heaven.

 

 

We have a growing problem that we can either say, a)not our responsibility and we can't help it that some parents are not doing their job. An ostrich in the sand mentality and we will face the issues later in life. b)try to do as much as we can to limit children seeing the negative influences as an acceptable format.

 

I can't be every kids parent. I can't influence the morals and values of every person they come in contact with. I CAN influence the morals and values of my own children. When they say it takes a village to raise a child, they mean to keep them on the right path. But the village isn't the government. If we go to the lengths you suggest, it becomes a slippery slope for a lot of other governmental controls I don't think anyone wants.

I don't think I have brought religion into this discussion and if I did it was a minute part of my point.

 

Kids are not as "savvy" as people believe. Kids are kids and are not able to process the overwhelming negative images they are being saturated with. People want to think they are, but I see teenager after teenager that has had to cope with adult issues and they are a whole issue of problems. Kids WANT to be KIDS but adults are making them HAVE to be adults. And they are not ready to do it.

 

In my role as a marketing teacher, I attended a seminar once from a Coca Cola representative in the early 90's. He made the point that they advertise MAINLY to preteens and early teens. Their research indicate that if they could get a preteen or teenager to commit to drinking Coke, it would mean close to $500,000 in sales in that person's lifetime. Their research indicated that people do not change their soft drink choices in a lifetime.

 

They may go from Coke to Diet Coke but will rarely go to Pepsi.

 

My point is that a teenager's world view AND THEIR ENTIRE LIFE is GREATLY influenced by what they see and hear and view and experience at this point in their lives. If they are consistently seeing images put out by ADULTS that this is acceptable way to conduct oneself, that is what they will intestinalize as acceptable ways for them to act.

 

Young athletes see it being acceptable to take steroids and they will take steroids.

 

Young musicians seeing it as acceptable to rap about the "ho" you are going to beat down and take advantage of and that will see that as acceptable.

 

Young gamers constantly playing games like NBA games in which they play basketball games and their prizes are women see treating women as pieces of trade and they will adapt that mindset. And then seeing athletes fathering a dozen children out of wedlock with 6 different women and......

 

I find it disturbing that people feel a 12 or 13 year old can have garbage, garbage, garbage and garbage poured into their brain and they can process that all out without issues.

 

No different than feeding their body. They consistently put nothing but junk food in their body and you will see problems. Of course that is exactly where we are in this society. A society that is full of child obesity, growing health problems with juvenile diabetes leading the way.

 

I think soon we will be in the same place behavorial wise in this country if we are not already there.

 

We CAN'T continue to have the ostrich in the sand mentality with the increasing violence problems IN SCHOOLS let alone the youth and the violence issues going on outside of schools.

 

As we have symptoms with our body that warns us of medical problems, we have symptoms that are warning us of societal problems. We just seem to not be wanting to listen to them.

Let me add, while Swamprat made a compelling argument that my logic indicates a governmental censoring. I am not fond of that.

 

I am fond of pulling on the conscious of this great country to take the stand and say we are not going to accept that. To change the culture. To change what we will allow through our viewing choices. To let the young people in our lives see us saying, NO THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

 

THE BEST WAY is for each and everyone of us to do it individually. But we cannot pick and choose.

 

Someone called me on 24. I do not watch it if my kids are in the room or awake. If they walk in the room, it goes to another channel.

 

And yes, the parental ratings is turned on in my house. Kids tv upstairs is blocked from even coming on between 10:00 PM and 7:00 AM with no show/movie above PG to come on without my wife or I typing in the code.

Let me add, while Swamprat made a compelling argument that my logic indicates a governmental censoring. I am not fond of that.

 

I am fond of pulling on the conscious of this great country to take the stand and say we are not going to accept that. To change the culture. To change what we will allow through our viewing choices. To let the young people in our lives see us saying, NO THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

 

THE BEST WAY is for each and everyone of us to do it individually. But we cannot pick and choose.

 

Someone called me on 24. I do not watch it if my kids are in the room or awake. If they walk in the room, it goes to another channel.

 

And yes, the parental ratings is turned on in my house. Kids tv upstairs is blocked from even coming on between 10:00 PM and 7:00 AM with no show/movie above PG to come on without my wife or I typing in the code.

 

Then, aren't you doing the responsible thing? Why, if such controls are in place, is it necessary to further restrict or censor for EVERYONE?

 

The issue is personal responsibility. The issue isn't censorship. The same problems WILL exist whether shows like SouthPark change thier format or not. Not everyone in the country agrees on all things. The thought that the country as a whole will stand up and say "No more SouthPark unless they give up their satirical format" is unrealistic.

 

Ladies, the right way to approach this is to influence those kids you can. You can do this through youth ministry, parenting, teaching. You have all kinds of opportunities to present a positive influence. And guess what....kids you influence will influence others. It does happen. You can't change the ills of society by enforcing a mandatory moral on ambiguous issues.

Then, aren't you doing the responsible thing? Why, if such controls are in place, is it necessary to further restrict or censor for EVERYONE?

 

The issue is personal responsibility. The issue isn't censorship. The same problems WILL exist whether shows like SouthPark change thier format or not. Not everyone in the country agrees on all things. The thought that the country as a whole will stand up and say "No more SouthPark unless they give up their satirical format" is unrealistic.

 

Ladies, the right way to approach this is to influence those kids you can. You can do this through youth ministry, parenting, teaching. You have all kinds of opportunities to present a positive influence. And guess what....kids you influence will influence others. It does happen. You can't change the ills of society by enforcing a mandatory moral on ambiguous issues.

Yes, it is personal responsibility, absolutely and 100% correct.

 

Would you agree that lack of personal responsibility of parents will manifest itself most times in their children and potential behavioral problems?

 

If you agree to that, do we just address these problems AFTER the kid has become a drain on society? Or do we try and be a preventive society?

 

My view is preventive.

 

As far as the whole country, I am a glass halffull kinda guy. I still think someday we will have another great politician to lead this country as President.

Yes, it is personal responsibility, absolutely and 100% correct.

 

Would you agree that lack of personal responsibility of parents will manifest itself most times in their children and potential behavioral problems?

 

If you agree to that, do we just address these problems AFTER the kid has become a drain on society? Or do we try and be a preventive society?

 

My view is preventive.

 

As far as the whole country, I am a glass halffull kinda guy. I still think someday we will have another great politician to lead this country as President.

 

ladies, as much as I agree with you, I must tell you...watching South Park will not be the single definitive cause of a kid becoming a drain on society. It takes MUCH more than that...

 

I'm a glass half full person too, but I also know that there's not one single, definitive, no question about it, cause to the issues about which you are concerned.

ladies, as much as I agree with you, I must tell you...watching South Park will not be the single definitive cause of a kid becoming a drain on society. It takes MUCH more than that...

 

I'm a glass half full person too, but I also know that there's not one single, definitive, no question about it, cause to the issues about which you are concerned.

One show, I agree, but I thought I was being clear but guess I was not.

 

I am talking about a societal mindset that things that don't build our society up, we want no part of. Fred Phelps, he gets the message that we don't his crap in our society. Creators of South Park, same. Larry Flynt, same. Those who glamorize drugs and treating women as possessions to do with what they choose, same.

 

I would like to see this country step up and be great rather than put up with baggage that drags us down.

Just yesterday I stopped one of my students from yelling at and cussing at their grandparents. Told them they WOULD NOT do that while I was responsible for them. They would not treat their grandparents that way.

 

Equally important is that the grandparents had the same attitude as the kid. You can't blame society for the kid's attitude if their parents/grandparents essentially condone it.

 

As for 24, I was making the comparison between it and South Park. You change the channel when kids come in and set your parental controls like a responsible parent. Why can't anyone else do that with South Park? Why are you not arguing that Fox should remove 24 from primetime?

Equally important is that the grandparents had the same attitude as the kid. You can't blame society for the kid's attitude if their parents/grandparents essentially condone it.

 

As for 24, I was making the comparison between it and South Park. You change the channel when kids come in and set your parental controls like a responsible parent. Why can't anyone else do that with South Park? Why are you not arguing that Fox should remove 24 from primetime?

Because I am telling you that is not occurring more and more than you realize and I see the fallout on a daily basis with these kids. And I foresee a growing huge problem that we will have in this society in 15-20 years.

 

As we didn't address the issues of child obesity and poor nutrition in the 80's and 90's because it was a "parental" issue and now we are dealing with the fallout today. More and more strains on the health care and insurance industry because lack of parental guidance.

 

I have said that it is the parents/grandparents fault. But if the kid is not seeing at home, yelling and screaming, where are they learning it? Not at school? But in their music, their television and their movies.

 

Tobacco industry has been held responsible for the problems that their product has created. Why can't other industry's do the same?

Well I don't even understand your post...:thumb:

That's okay -- neither do I.

Because I am telling you that is not occurring more and more than you realize and I see the fallout on a daily basis with these kids. And I foresee a growing huge problem that we will have in this society in 15-20 years.

 

I'm quite sure people said this in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s and society has yet to fall apart.

 

Tobacco industry has been held responsible for the problems that their product has created. Why can't other industry's do the same?

 

As someone who defers to personal responsibility, how can you hold this up as precedent here?

 

"If you smoke you will increase the likelihood of acquiring cancer."

"I kept smoking and I got cancer....can I sue?"

 

"I let my kid watch South Park, 24 and a host of other TV-MA shows and he punched his friend and cussed at his teacher...can I sue to shows?"

 

I made the comment to Alabama Larry that there is no way you are going to stop every evil from coming in contact with kids. It has always been around and it always will. There is no way to stop it. It's not just South Park or movies or music either. The best remedy is to provide a solid example that kids will want to strive for. If they admire you as a teacher they will strive to be like you. I find that to be far more effective than having a show, music, or movie banned from production.