You are, perhaps, drawing an unintended conclusion, at least on my part. All that I can say is that kids come from a variety of background, some not as fortunate as you to have sensible people that use alcohol sensibly. Some (way too many) come from families that alcohol is abused. They may not separate me casually partaking in a beer with their drunk, passed out, maybe even abusive, parent.

 

I can, to some extent, understand what you're saying, but I know enough kids to know that they know the difference between having a drink and being drunk. The challenge is to get them to understand that self-discipline is what makes the difference. Abstinence is absolutely an option, but they should also learn the value of moderation, not only in consuming alcoholic beverages, but in all things in life.

You are, perhaps, drawing an unintended conclusion, at least on my part. All that I can say is that kids come from a variety of background, some not as fortunate as you to have sensible people that use alcohol sensibly. Some (way too many) come from families that alcohol is abused. They may not separate me casually partaking in a beer with their drunk, passed out, maybe even abusive, parent.

I understand what you are saying BUT I don't know that I agree with all of it.

 

I know that many children come from a home where alcohol is abused. Now short of condoning drinking by those underage wouldn't it be more productive to those kids to see that responsible adults can enjoy a drink without abusing it? If the only example of adults drinking they see is the abuse of alcohol aren't they more likely to see this as "normal".

 

And I am not in any way shape or form suggesting that teachers (or anyone) should actively try to set this example.

What did Paul tell Timothy?

 

Being raised in Alabama where the whole northern part is "Dry Counties".

 

Girls couldn't even wear shorts in public.

 

Back in Jesus times there was no Coke, pepsi, Root Beer, they drank wine.

 

I see nothing wrong with a Little wine, beer, or similar drinks. Notice the word Little.

 

I have four sons and that is the main reason I have never drink, and like I said I was raised differently and never have missed it, I have tasted a Frozen drink before and it was OK, but I just don't need it.

I can, to some extent, understand what you're saying, but I know enough kids to know that they know the difference between having a drink and being drunk. The challenge is to get them to understand that self-discipline is what makes the difference. Abstinence is absolutely an option, but they should also learn the value of moderation, not only in consuming alcoholic beverages, but in all things in life.

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying. You are speaking of rational teenagers - some aren't.

 

Your "moderation" comment made me think of a principal we had a few years ago. When he would get on the intercom and talk about drugs (usually after a drug bust) we would always say "Young people, there is a time and a place for everything, but school is not it". I, along with several of my other collegues, would squirm when we would then get the comment "Does that mean that there is a time aand a place to ___?" Fill in the blank with smoke pot, do crack, snort cocaine, get high...

If alcohol is a sin then why does Paul tell Timothy

 

No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

1 Timothy 5:23 (New American Standard Bible)

What did Paul tell Timothy?

 

Being raised in Alabama where the whole northern part is "Dry Counties".

 

Girls couldn't even wear shorts in public.

 

Back in Jesus times there was no Coke, pepsi, Root Beer, they drank wine.

 

I see nothing wrong with a Little wine, beer, or similar drinks. Notice the word Little.

 

I have four sons and that is the main reason I have never drink, and like I said I was raised differently and never have missed it, I have tasted a Frozen drink before and it was OK, but I just don't need it.

Larry, I think you may have hit on something. Those of us that are Catholic have grown up seeing alcohol that is a normal part of social interaction. We serve it at our religious services and we serve it at our church picnics. It is routinely served in most homes. We would be surprised to learn that a teacher DOESN'T drink socially. It may be a cultural difference. As far as prohibiting girls wearing shorts in public, now that is just not right.

If we are talking the actual sin, it doesn't matter what the world thinks in it being a sin or not rather what God thinks and judges.

 

That's what I'm saying, except no where in the Bible does it say "it is a sin to consume alcohol." We, as a society, have decided that it is a sin and it is not our place to decide that.

 

Why are we so concerned with sinning? The Bible doesn't talk about online gambling, watching sleazy movies or marijuana (which I would say many Christians have decided are sinful), but it tells us how we should live: Love God and love everyone as much as you can. It is His place to decide what is sin and what isn't, but that is irrelevant as we are freed from it.

Stirring the pot a bit (anyone have a smiley for this??)

 

1. Does the Bible contain the exhaustive list of what constitutes sin???

2. If not, can sin change over time. In other words, can something that was sinful in Palestine circa Jesus be acceptable now, and conversely, are there things that were acceptable then that are now sinful?? Wine consumption, for example?

3. I think the teachers in this thread have hit on something. There is no question, in my mind, that the wine served at the Wedding at Cana, the wine served at the Last Supper, the wine discussed by Paul to Timothy, etc., was alcoholic, and as such, there was a recognition that wine had its usefulness and its place in our lives. There is also no question that at that time there was also a recognition that consumption of too much could be damaging: Jesus refused it on the cross, discussion of qualifications for deacon/bishop, etc. More importantly, however, I think there was a recognition THAT CAN'T BE IGNORED that with certain people, consumption of wine "would cause their brethren to stumble" (See Romans 6), and for this reason, John the Baptist refused to drink wine AT ALL, because of the image it would lend to others, rightly or wrongly. Therefore, I think there is scriptural precedent for the positions taken by LBBC and True Blue. Commendable.

 

Habib, I think the answer to your question is that it says, many times in Scripture, that the Lord hates sin and won't be a part of it, it saddens Him and hurts Him. If you continue to engage in that which is sinful you are deliberately hurting God, whether you are saved or not. I think scripture does give us guidance on that which is sinful, the 10 Commandments being just one example of many.

 

Noone expects much of lawyers, so I don't think I'm causing my brethren to falter by drinking the Courvasier I'm drinking right now to chase the February rains. Salud.

I wish I had a quarter for anytime a teenager made a decision that defied logic. My view is from 18 years of teaching, coaching, sponsoring teenagers.

 

 

I would take just a nickel for every time. Young people are most illogical.

Larry, I think you may have hit on something. Those of us that are Catholic have grown up seeing alcohol that is a normal part of social interaction. We serve it at our religious services and we serve it at our church picnics. It is routinely served in most homes. We would be surprised to learn that a teacher DOESN'T drink socially. It may be a cultural difference. As far as prohibiting girls wearing shorts in public, now that is just not right.

 

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. I had stopped posting on the subject, but kept reading. I think this is one of the major points. People are talking about different countries, and different cultures, in different countries and cultures alcohol is seen very differently. And could not be seen as sin, it is like waking up in the morning and the sun going down at night.

 

Sin, is what you make of it. If you put anything above God, you are sinning. We are all sinners, we all are addicted to something, weather it be tobacco, food, BGP, or alcohol. I think many people are quick to point to alcohol as an addiction problem, but the same people, would never consider over eating and being overweight as being on the same scale as alcoholism. The other aforementioned countries, see the overweight Americans as sinners of overindulgence, and many people in the US see drinking of alcohol as a sin, who is correct?

I think many people are quick to point to alcohol as an addiction problem, but the same people, would never consider over eating and being overweight as being on the same scale as alcoholism.

 

This is speaking for us...ask us what we would say, rather than tell us.

 

I do admit that I am addicted to BGP. The first step is admitting the problem. :thumb:

 

As humans, we are sinners. There are things that I do that are sins. I have to ask for forgiveness for these things. I don't look down on those that sin. I have enough trouble with my own sin to keep up with anyone elses.

I think there is scriptural precedent for the positions taken by LBBC and True Blue. Commendable.

 

Noone expects much of lawyers, so I don't think I'm causing my brethren to falter by drinking the Courvasier I'm drinking right now to chase the February rains. Salud.

 

Thanks for the props, Hearsay. Let me raise my glass of Shasta as a toast to you! :thumb:

I do admit that I am addicted to BGP. The first step is admitting the problem. :thumb:

 

Maybe we should start a BGP Anonymous.

 

"Hello. I am Ram I am addicted to BGP."

 

"Hello. Ram."

Hello Ram...

Alum...I had a girlfriend who had other clothes she kept at friends place because her Mom & dad were against halters type tops and shorts.

 

What about where Paul tells women to "never cut your hair and keep a head covering".

Maybe we should start a BGP Anonymous.

 

"Hello. I am Ram I am addicted to BGP."

 

"Hello. Ram."

 

I am sure that there is a twelve step program somewhere. Do we need a sponsor?