When interpreting any scripture, you have to look at it in context and in order to do that you have to answer some questions. Such as "Who is doing the talking?, Who are they talking to?, What are the circumstances, history, setting, etc. leading up to the passages?" etc.

 

In this case, it seems the pertinent question is who is the subject in verse 31. Who is that statement aimed at?

 

Is it aimed at everyone, or just Christians, or just those that tarry too long at the wine or those who seek mixed wines?

From what I've read, Solomon was talking to alcoholics.

Watusi & HHSDAD, those are very fine points. There only a few things in the Bible that is not directed at both Christians and Sinners

IMO no, it's not a sin. So go out have a few drinks and have a good time. Just don't act the fool and all will be right with the world.

IMO no, it's not a sin. So go out have a few drinks and have a good time. Just don't act the fool and all will be right with the world.

 

 

I love your Location on your avatar. Is that original?

I love your Location on your avatar. Is that original?

Thanks. No, I can't take credit for it. Wish I was that witty.

Want to go have a drink?

Instead

Want to go have a drink?

Lord knows I could use one with the day I'm having. :madman:

That would have taken me a week to type...ha ha

 

Copy and paste are my friends!

You are kidding , right?

Yes, to a point… to make a point.

 

Paul would prefer that we all remain celibate, essentially wedding our emotions to pleasing God, but since he realized that our carnal “urges” are so strong, he somewhat begrudgingly acceded to the idea of Christian marriage. It is clear however, from a close examination of his teachings that he felt that not marrying and remaining celibate was the ideal spiritual arrangement. (He also makes it clear that getting married and then deciding to become celibate is not the correct approach either… unless of course both parties are so persuaded. :lol: )

 

I know individuals who argue strenuously that that wine in the Bible was somehow different from the Gallo Brothers stuff you can buy by the jug today. They try to convince us that Jesus only drank “fresh” wine, meaning unfermented grape juice, or that if the wine was fermented, it was far weaker in terms of alcohol content than it is today thereby making it less objectionable somehow.

 

I have read the Good Book cover to cover, several times, and cannot find anything that would support these assertions. Quite simply, depending upon sugar content, once grapes begin to ferment they will reach a point of between 10% and 15% alcohol content. This is simply nature as God created it. There is no compelling reason to believe that grapes, yeast and natural processes were any different then than they are today. Without refrigeration or sterile pasteurization and preservation processes the basic options for grape juice are to either drink it fresh in season, allow it to ferment and make wine or vinegar (thereby preserving it), or to simply let it spoil.

 

The only people in the entire Bible called to total abstinence of the fruit of the vine were the Nazarites. These were individuals called to total holiness in their flesh. Sampson and John the Baptist were notable examples. Perhaps some Christians feel this call in their lives too, just as some feel the call to remain celibate. I say that’s awesome, go for it with all you have, but I read nothing to indicate that every believer is called to the same measure. Perhaps I am wrong, and I am willing to admit it if someone can clearly persuade me via the Word of God.

 

In making these statements, I am neither endorsing nor condemning the consumption of alcoholic beverages in moderation. That is a point of conviction entirely between each individual and their Maker. Just as marriage is good for many, it is not the best option for those called to a closer walk with God. I read nothing in the entire Bible to indicate that having an occasional glass of wine is a sin for most, but for those called to total abstinence, even looking upon it longingly may very well be a sin.

 

Clearly, the act of drinking to excess is wrong for everyone.

Bubba. Moderation is mentioned in Philippians where it means something about being gentle towards others and not be anxious.

 

Excess has more verses...Matthew 23:25...Ephesians 5:18...1st Peter 4:3:4

 

RockMom nice job on your post.

I've held off posting in this thread but I do want to weigh in.

 

Many things in our own Christianity are matters of personal nature between only ouselves and our Lord. We all serve the same God, but we are not all from the same background, knowledge levels, customs or environments. This means that we all come with our own baggage and beliefs and we will all have differing opinions about matters such as what is being discussed here.

 

I've always thought that in matters of Christian living (non-salvations issues) that we have an obligation to each other to give a little lee-way. You can disagree with something somebody else believes without being compelled to try and prove them wrong. A little patience and love goes a long way.

 

Such is the case with this issue of drinking. Some have studied and truely believe that it is wrong for them to partake. Others beleive that there is no sin in drinking moderately. The thing to remember is that what may not be a sin for one, would be for another.

 

An example of this principle, IMO, is found in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 8.

 

Paul is writing to the church at Corinth and this church is filled with new Christians, many of whom are converts from Judaism. With that comes many, many beliefs about many things, one of which involved the eating of meat from animal sacrifices.

 

Customarily, the meat offered for sacrifices was divided into thirds. One third was burnt as an offering and one third was given to the worshipper to take home and eat and the final third was given to the Priest. If the Priest didn't want it, it was typically sent to the market to be sold to the public. Thus it was possible if you were dining in somebody's home, you could easily eat meat from a sacrifice without knowing it. And this offended many and was causing a stir among the church.

 

Now, many of them realized that they were not bound by the old law, that animal sacrifices were no longer necessary for salvation and that there was nothing wrong with eating of that meat. But many of them were deeply offended because of their background and because they had such deeply held beliefs on the matter.

 

Pauls comments on that issue are very telling in how we should deal with issues with our brothers and sisters.

 

1Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge.^[a] Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3But the man who loves God is known by God.

 

4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. 9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

 

 

I see by this that Paul is telling us we definitely are to be considerate and accomodating to our brothers and sisters who may hold differing beliefs from our own. If my brother considers it a sin to drink beer, then when I am with him, I should refrain from this so as not to offend him. (offend here means to cause him to sin, or to do something which he considers a sin)

 

So is drinking a sin? Yes and no.

 

If you come from a background where social drinking in moderation is accepted and not looked upon as sinful, and to you, it might be acceptable. You may be able to have a drink socially and nobody raise an eyebrow. For others, especially those raised in areas where it is considered a sin, doing so would be looked upon harshly and those actions might be a stumbling block for others, especially young Christians.

 

Personally, I don't think having an alcoholic drink is a sin in and of itself. But depending on the circumstances it could be wrong and if it causes somebody else to stumble, then it is a sin against Christ. I would not be so quick to dismiss the seriousness of our actions causing somebody else to stumble.

 

And like Paul tells us about marriage, considering all the problems that comes with it, maybe it would be best to never partake at all. But that is a debate for another thread.

Watusi, you are right, there is a big difference culturally just between the Ashland area and the Lexington area concerning this issue and Traditional versus Contemporary, and so forth. I just wish you or someone else could explain to me the meaning of Proverbs 23:29-32 without taking it out of context, just explain to me what verse 31 means...does it mean if you close your eyes then go ahead and drink..ha ha. Seriously, how do you take these verses. I am not saying if you drink you are going to hell, because we are saved by Grace not of works, but I take those words LOOK NOT UPON as saying dont drink it, on the other hand I really enjoyed your post, very good.

I don't think you can take just that one verse and get what Solomon's intended meaning was.

 

But when I read all those verses together, I think he is warning against drunkedness. To those who are drunkards, those who are weak and tend to "tarry too long" or "linger over" the wine. He is telling them that the end results are disastrous so avoid the beginnings. Don't even look upon the wine and you won't get drunk on it.

 

Of course, in a general sense, if all of us would refrain from all drinking we would also avoid the risk of any drunkedness that we might fall to. In that sense, we could consider it a warning to everyone and not just drunkards.

 

But the danger in that is we can make anything a sin, as rockmom said earlier. We can sin by overindulging in food, or any other thing that otherwise is not sinful in any way. So do we condemn eating altogether or just being gluttonous?

I believe that anything we do that impairs our judgement, distorts our thinking, then we shouldnt be doing it. For some this would invovle just one drink (glass or beer) for others it would be drunkeness. Some people like to see how close they can get to the fire without being burnt. I am not one of these people. For me personally its not an issue because I choose not to do it. Even if I didnt think it was a sin for me personally I wouldnt want my children seeing me drink. You make great points Watusi. Just a point to ponder most theologians do not believe Solomon wrote that part of Proverbs. Now that is what I call splitting hairs! One thing is for sure, we will alll have to give an account one day for how we lived this life.