February 23, 200719 yr ^ Does the bible ever contradict itself in your eyes? Or better yet, make it confusing for the lay people to "pick and choose" what they should pattern their lives after. People were given free will by God, and in my free will, with help, was taught to question my faith from time to time. In the long run, it only solidifies my faith that much more. It is NOT a sin to drink alcohol, but I respect your wishes to believe that it is.
February 23, 200719 yr I'm sorry...I don't understand. Can you post the entire set of passages? Proverbs 23: 29-35
February 23, 200719 yr I guess nothing is a sin anymore. We do not have to follow God's Word after being saved, just enjoy the free ticket to Heaven because we can do whatever we want and ignore all the passages in both Old and New Testaments that calls believers to a life of Holiness. We can drink, gamble, cheat, short change our employers, stay on BGP's all day long, live how we want to live. I Will state this again, I do not judge and I do not condemn those that drink or even those that get drunk. God is their judge not me.
February 23, 200719 yr ^ Does the bible ever contradict itself in your eyes? Or better yet, make it confusing for the lay people to "pick and choose" what they should pattern their lives after. People were given free will by God, and in my free will, with help, was taught to question my faith from time to time. In the long run, it only solidifies my faith that much more. It is NOT a sin to drink alcohol, but I respect your wishes to believe that it is. I am not picking and choosing. For me it is either all or nothing.
February 23, 200719 yr Proverbs 23: 29-35 I'm asking, can you post those passages in their entirety here? I know that my version of the Bible is different than yours. Can I see exactly how yours is worded.
February 23, 200719 yr I'm asking, can you post those passages in their entirety here? I know that my version of the Bible is different than yours. Can I see exactly how yours is worded. Do you realize how slow I type? What version do you want? I have 13 different translations plus Hebrew and Greek.
February 23, 200719 yr Larry Mahoney didn't mean to do what he did he just drank too much. If he had gone to Ryans and ate too much would he have gotten on I-71 the wrong way? I don't think so.
February 23, 200719 yr Another question BB... You keep quoting Proverbs, which is an Old Testament Book. What of the Books of the New Testament? Many passages throughout the New Testament seem contradictiory to those in the Old Testament, or at least tempered somewhat. How do you choose which passages are irrevocable?
February 23, 200719 yr Do you realize how slow I type? What version do you want? I have 13 different translations plus Hebrew and Greek. No, but I'm trying really hard to understand your point of view, but I need help from you to do so.
February 23, 200719 yr Larry Mahoney didn't mean to do what he did he just drank too much. If he had gone to Ryans and ate too much would he have gotten on I-71 the wrong way? I don't think so. He wouldn't have done it if he hadn't drank too much. The point is moderation, and knowing your limits and living within them. The sin is in ignoring them and acting in an irresponsible manner, whether it be to continue drinking or to drive after getting drunk.
February 23, 200719 yr Here is the entire Proverb 23, from KJV: Proverbs 23 1When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee: 2And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat. 4Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. 5Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven. 6Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words. 9Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. 10Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless: 11For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee. 12Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge. 13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. 15My son, if thine heart be wise, my heart shall rejoice, even mine. 16Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things. 17Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long. 18For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off. 19Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. 20Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 21For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. 22Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old. 23Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. 24The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him. 25Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice. 26My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27For a (word ommitted as it's a WFV) is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men. 29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
February 23, 200719 yr Another question BB... You keep quoting Proverbs, which is an Old Testament Book. What of the Books of the New Testament? Many passages throughout the New Testament seem contradictiory to those in the Old Testament, or at least tempered somewhat. How do you choose which passages are irrevocable? If it is in the Bible, does really matter? If it does then just throw out the Old Testament. We are living in an age of Grace but God does not change and what He thinks about sin, Holiness, Life, Death is still the same.
February 23, 200719 yr Here is the entire Proverb 23, from KJV: Proverbs 23 1When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee: 2And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. 3Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat. 4Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. 5Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven. 6Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words. 9Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words. 10Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless: 11For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee. 12Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge. 13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. 14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. 15My son, if thine heart be wise, my heart shall rejoice, even mine. 16Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things. 17Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long. 18For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off. 19Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way. 20Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 21For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags. 22Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old. 23Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. 24The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him. 25Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice. 26My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27For a (word ommitted as it's a WFV) is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men. 29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. 34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. 35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. That would have taken me a week to type...ha ha
February 23, 200719 yr Since I am not a Biblical Scholar, I was wondering where are all the verses at in the Bible that speaks of Moderation and Excess?
February 23, 200719 yr When interpreting any scripture, you have to look at it in context and in order to do that you have to answer some questions. Such as "Who is doing the talking?, Who are they talking to?, What are the circumstances, history, setting, etc. leading up to the passages?" etc. In this case, it seems the pertinent question is who is the subject in verse 31. Who is that statement aimed at? Is it aimed at everyone, or just Christians, or just those that tarry too long at the wine or those who seek mixed wines?
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.