Are you kidding?

 

Are you implying that God will knowingly do wrong because men want him to and that He knowingly performed a miracle that allowed men to act in a sinful manner? I'm not buying that.

 

Your last sentence certainly paints with an awfully broad brush. I would more likely say that gambling and alcohol in excess ruins lives.

 

Thats not what I said that is your spin on what I said. Jesus had other concerns rather than pleasing just His earthly mother or the wedding guests, His concern was the Cross! And just to set the record straight once and for all...the Bible implies nothing in no shape or form whether the wine was fermented or not. Oinos is a Greek word found here in this particular text for wine, simply meaning the fruit of the vine. As for the wine being the best, I am sure it was, anything Jesus does (Even water into wine) is bound to be better than any cheap Boones Farm Tickle Pink man made wine.

Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

 

I sure hope not!

Why would anyone that is a believer do something that would bring reproach upon Christ Jesus

When in the book of proverbs 23:31 it says THOU SHALL NOT LOOK upon the wine when it has turned red...with a little research one can find the meaning to be once it has fermented, dont even look at it.

What part about this do people not understand?

Drinking, Drunkeness, whatever, however you want to split hairs on it..is wrong not because Big Bubba thinks so but because God's Word teaches us that it is wrong, The marriage at Cana, and the mircale at Cana..who knows if it was in God's will or not. Just because God performed a miracle doesnt necessarily mean that is what He wanted to do. Study the passage very carefully. Sometimes God answers our prayers, not because it is what is best but because we keep praying and we change His mind. Have you ever heard the saying be careful for what you ask because you might just get it. Whoever thinks that because Jesus turned water into win makes it okay to socially drink is just being fooled and deceived by the enemy. It is a proven fact that gambling and alcohol ruins lives.

 

 

How can you quote that scripture and use it to proof text your opinion totally out of context?

 

Why don't you back up two verses and quote the entire passage?

How can you quote that scripture and use it to proof text your opinion totally out of context?

 

Why don't you back up two verses and quote the entire passage?

 

Do you understand what those two verses are talking about. Verses 29 and 30 are questions that drive home the fact that alcoholism has both physical and mental effects. Verse 30 is pretty much stating that since you know the effects of wine then it would be best if you didnt even look upon it.

 

Bottom line is that if you want to drink then drink, you are a free moral agent of yourself and you do not need the Bible to convince you that it is wrong.

 

To me, maybe not to you, these verse are very clear that it would be best that you didnt drink.

 

There are two kinds of people in the World. Those that say, "Lord have it Your way" and those to whom the Lord, says, "Fine Have it your way"

Do you understand what those two verses are talking about. Verses 29 and 30 are questions that drive home the fact that alcoholism has both physical and mental effects. Verse 30 is pretty much stating that since you know the effects of wine then it would be best if you didnt even look upon it.

 

Bottom line is that if you want to drink then drink, you are a free moral agent of yourself and you do not need the Bible to convince you that it is wrong.

 

To me, maybe not to you, these verse are very clear that it would be best that you didnt drink.

 

There are two kinds of people in the World. Those that say, "Lord have it Your way" and those to whom the Lord, says, "Fine Have it your way"

 

What are you talking about?

 

The verses ask questions about who has problems and the answer is those who "linger" ("tarry long" if you are a KJV man) over wine. This scripture does not come close to prohibiting drinking. However, it is consistent with the rest of the Bible in warning against excess.

 

If you just quote just verse 30 it is easy to lead people to believe that the Bible (and ultimately God) are saying something that they clearly are not. Why would God warn against the dangers of wine and then create it at a party?

What are you talking about?

 

The verses ask questions about who has problems and the answer is those who "linger" ("tarry long" if you are a KJV man) over wine. This scripture does not come close to prohibiting drinking. However, it is consistent with the rest of the Bible in warning against excess.

 

If you just quote just verse 30 it is easy to lead people to believe that the Bible (and ultimately God) are saying something that they clearly are not. Why would God warn against the dangers of wine and then create it at a party?

 

 

Maybe we are not talking about the same verses. I am talking about Proverbs

In your own interpretation what do you think that those 3 verses are saying especially the last verse (30). As I stated before about the wine at the wedding in Cana, the greek word used for wine simply means "Fruit of the vine" it does not imply fermentation. It just refers to fruit of the vine. Like I said if you are a Christian and do not feel convicted about drinking then thats between you and God but I think it is very dangerous to portray to others that it is okay to do it. If I am going to err then let me err on the side of love. I would rather err by telling others not do drink then to open up the flood gates and say it is permissible for a child of God to socially drink. MO nothing more nothing less.

The bolded part makes me think that maybe I am around very different teenagers than you! I have heard some students mentioning being uncomfortable in situations where they saw a teacher drinking, even though he (the teacher) was in now way drunk. They seem to have this innate (sp?) sense of what is right and what is wrong.

 

I guess that means that I feel that drinking is wrong, at least how it is portrayed in our society where alcoholism is rampant.

 

I can see where both parties are coming from on this. My first reaction was sorta that of your own TB. But then I got to thinking about how I really felt. I didn't feel awkward bc I felt it was bad when I saw teachers and coaches drinking. Just rather unfamiliar with it. It's something at that time they were able to do and myself and peers were not. So I wasn't used to seeing them do it, bc generally outside of football and school we really didn't spend ALOT of time together. Not under those social circumstances.

 

I wouldn't say I was uncomfortable, just surprised, bc you kinda forget that you're coaches and teachers are just like you too, even when they tell you there stories from back in the day, it just doesn't always sink in til you see it first hand.

It's only a sin if you won't share.

 

No thats just a party foul.

Maybe we are not talking about the same verses. I am talking about Proverbs

In your own interpretation what do you think that those 3 verses are saying especially the last verse (30). As I stated before about the wine at the wedding in Cana, the greek word used for wine simply means "Fruit of the vine" it does not imply fermentation. It just refers to fruit of the vine. Like I said if you are a Christian and do not feel convicted about drinking then thats between you and God but I think it is very dangerous to portray to others that it is okay to do it. If I am going to err then let me err on the side of love. I would rather err by telling others not do drink then to open up the flood gates and say it is permissible for a child of God to socially drink. MO nothing more nothing less.

 

You can't ask me what verse 30 says without looking at the context from which it comes. Taking a single verse out of context is very dangerous.

 

My understanding is there aren't multiple Greek (or Hebrew) words for wine. There is one, which could mean fermented or unfermented. People who argue that God spoke against drinking say that anytime drinking is used negatively it is refering to the fermented kind and anytime it is referred to positively it is the unfemented kind. Further they have to backtrack a little more because the Bible expressly says that wine can be used as a painkiller and then they have to say that God allowed this one single use of fermented wine.

 

Sorry but that is hard for me to believe that you have to do that much mental gymnastics to figure out what God wants. I don't check my brain at the door with my relationship to Jesus, therefore I see no way (and certainly God wasn't not explicit that) touching a liquid to my lips would impact that relationship. Therefore I don't see how preaching and promoting such condemnation would be an act of love. There are lots of things in life that on the surface are neither bad nor evil. Golf for example. If I golf to the point that it hurts relationships, puts me in a financial bind, causes me to not follow through on commitments then it might become a sinful practice to me, but does that mean I should comdem those who do, "in love", just to be safe.

 

Finally think about the things Jesus said:

 

- You have heard it said not to murder, I tell you not to hate.

- You have heard it said not to commit adultery, I tell you not to lust.

 

 

Why is there no:

 

- You have heard it said not to get drunk, but I tell you not to drink. There is nothing that even approaches connecting the two. It is because it is more a question of excess rather than the initial action is sin.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. If you desire to drink then go have one. I personally do not and said I do not judge others that do. Dont make me out to be some bigot because I am not. I believe in taking God's Word for what it says, there are some things open to interpret and then there are other things that are black and white. If you think drinking is okay then why do you keep trying to prove it. I am not trying to prove that it is wrong, I am simply stating what the Bible says. You say you cannot take verse 30 out of context, if that it is the case then everyone should stop quoting John 3:16 and taking that out of it context. I do agree with what you are saying about different Greek words but there is only one Greek word used for wine for the following verses John 2:9,10 the ONLY Greek word used here is the word Oinos which means the fruit of the vine.

 

I think we miss the whole point of this miracle in John 2. Its not so we can justify drinking nor is it for banning it.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. If you desire to drink then go have one. I personally do not and said I do not judge others that do. Dont make me out to be some bigot because I am not. I believe in taking God's Word for what it says, there are some things open to interpret and then there are other things that are black and white. If you think drinking is okay then why do you keep trying to prove it. I am not trying to prove that it is wrong, I am simply stating what the Bible says. You say you cannot take verse 30 out of context, if that it is the case then everyone should stop quoting John 3:16 and taking that out of it context. I do agree with what you are saying about different Greek words but there is only one Greek word used for wine for the following verses John 2:9,10 the ONLY Greek word used here is the word Oinos which means the fruit of the vine.

 

I think we miss the whole point of this miracle in John 2. Its not so we can justify drinking nor is it for banning it.

 

 

I think that what Oldbird is trying to point out is that there are different ways to interpret the Bible. The way in which you choose to interpret the Bible is passage by passage, irrespective of those passages that may come before it, or follow it. This differs from the way others interpret the Bible. My denomination interprets the message from the entire context in which a passage is contained. So, in essence, it's like reading a whole paragraph and gleaning the message from the entire paragraph, and not singling out one sentence.

Do you understand what those two verses are talking about. Verses 29 and 30 are questions that drive home the fact that alcoholism has both physical and mental effects. Verse 30 is pretty much stating that since you know the effects of wine then it would be best if you didnt even look upon it.

 

Bottom line is that if you want to drink then drink, you are a free moral agent of yourself and you do not need the Bible to convince you that it is wrong.

 

To me, maybe not to you, these verse are very clear that it would be best that you didnt drink.

 

There are two kinds of people in the World. Those that say, "Lord have it Your way" and those to whom the Lord, says, "Fine Have it your way"

I would be very interested to read your take on 1 Corinthians chapter 7, and specifically 1 Cor 7:1 which reads "It is good for a man not to marry."

 

It could be reasonably argued that Paul felt that "since you know the effects of marriage then it would be best if you didn’t even look upon it."

 

Does that make marriage a sin? Hardly, in fact a total balance of Biblical references on marriage make it clear that it is absolutely the best way to go in terms of building families and a strong society.

 

Kinda reminds me of the old one-liner... Despite today's higher cost-of-living, it's still popular. :lol:

 

My point is, that while it may be better to avoid potential problems rather than risk becoming ensnared in potentially harmful patterns… that in-and-of itself does not make the action a sin.

 

I believe the Bible is 100% God inspired and accurately preserved to this day. I simply think it is wise to accept the whole Bible in context, not attempt to dissect slivers here and slices there to make it say something we’re more comfortable with.

I would be very interested to read your take on 1 Corinthians chapter 7, and specifically 1 Cor 7:1 which reads "It is good for a man not to marry."

 

It could be reasonably argued that Paul felt that "since you know the effects of marriage then it would be best if you didn’t even look upon it."

 

Does that make marriage a sin? Hardly, in fact a total balance of Biblical references on marriage make it clear that it is absolutely the best way to go in terms of building families and a strong society.

 

Kinda reminds me of the old one-liner... Despite today's higher cost-of-living, it's still popular. :lol:

 

My point is, that while it may be better to avoid potential problems rather than risk becoming ensnared in potentially harmful patterns… that in-and-of itself does not make the action a sin.

 

I believe the Bible is 100% God inspired and accurately preserved to this day. I simply think it is wise to accept the whole Bible in context, not attempt to dissect slivers here and slices there to make it say something we’re more comfortable with.

 

You are kidding , right?

I think that what Oldbird is trying to point out is that there are different ways to interpret the Bible. The way in which you choose to interpret the Bible is passage by passage, irrespective of those passages that may come before it, or follow it. This differs from the way others interpret the Bible. My denomination interprets the message from the entire context in which a passage is contained. So, in essence, it's like reading a whole paragraph and gleaning the message from the entire paragraph, and not singling out one sentence.

 

 

And I feel the same way. Read all three of those verses together. Sometimes I wonder what many are thinking on here, read my other posts. You see what you want to see. LOOK NOT is not an option, verse 30 says Do Not Look upon it...how else do you interpret that verse, how do you interpret a LOOK NOT, does it mean do it when no one is looking, or that you really do not have to obey a LOOK NOT in the Bible. I just dont get it. If it would have said in its context LOOK TO IT IF YOU CHOOSE but it didnt, and by the way the other two verses are stating the mental and physical effects that alochol can have on a person. I took nothing out of its context.

And I feel the same way. Read all three of those verses together. Sometimes I wonder what many are thinking on here, read my other posts. You see what you want to see. DO NOT is not an option, verse 30 says Do Not Look upon it...how else do you interpret that verse, how do you interpret a DO NOT, does it mean do it when no one is looking, or that you really do not have to obey a DO NOT in the Bible. I just dont get it. If it would have said in its context DO IT IF YOU CHOOSE but it didnt, and by the way the other two verses are stating the mental and physical effects that alochol can have on a person. I took nothing out of its context.

 

 

I'm sorry...I don't understand.

 

Can you post the entire set of passages?