Master mind? I was told he invented some offensive schemes. If this is the case he is more than a master mind!

HDE for some reason MNT. 10 is dodging your question?

It's not that big of a deal, and I understand some of the logic behind it, but I don't like to have my knowledge of local sports history questioned.

The Supt of Harlan Ind, Roy Teague, is the man who stopped the Harlan/Cawood series. It was not renewed until after his retirement.

It's not that big of a deal, and I understand some of the logic behind it, but I don't like to have my knowledge of local sports history questioned.

Well, I did give homage to your knowledge (pretty cool rhyme, huh?)., however, the perspective issue is in question for all of us. No offense intended. As to who stopped the series, it may well have been the decision of Harlan Ind. Administrators. If it was, then why? I have been told some of the reasons, but it would serve only to drag the debate on and on. I do not believe it was out of fear and trembling, because I knew the superintendent and the Principal very well, and they weren't fearful men. However, they may have made the decision ( if it was indeed Harlan's decision) for good reasons. As to perspective once again, we could debate it forever. From a Cawood perspective it was Harlan dodging. I doubt myself or anyone else could convince you otherwise. Likewise, from a Harlan perspective, you won't convince me of Harlan dodging. So the knowledge debate is conceded. I confess I'm not as savvy. But perspective is everything. No one knows all the answers I'll wager.

This will be my third attempt to respond to this question of why. Not dodging anything just had some family issues that had to be dealt with. So here goes, from the start of Cawood High School till the football season of 73 Harlan had not lost a game of any sort to CHS. About this time along came Boyd Fox as the football coach at Cawood, he had a big ego and an even bigger mouth and he did what had to be done at CHS that to change the mind set of we are not going to the step children any more.On this end of the county Harlan was the traditional school and did not want to have Cawood as an equal. That being said one issue stands out to be the thing to have put this thing on tilt. In 72 Harlan had elected for their football queen a young lady that just happend to be black and the night that she was to be crowned it came a big rain storm and the powers that be decided not to hold the cermonies.(big mistake). The black community at this time was a pretty large group at HHS during this era and played a central role in the success in sports that Harlan acheived. After this some of the families of the black students felt that HHS was not being fair to their children and decided to send a few students to the county school. So during the football season of 73 Cawood put out a very good football team and waxed Harlan and most every school that they played, but one of the students that transferred from Harlan to Cawood did not have the grades when he left Harlan to play, and Fox allowed him to play anyway. This action caused an investigation from the KHSAA and Cawood had to forfiet any game that this student played in.When all the dust setteled from this the adminastration at HHS decided that they would not play Cawood in any sport that was not mandated by tournment rule. Their reasoning was that Cawood would go to any length to win and that HHS did not have to be a part of it.So as you can see the HHS powers were a little short sided on the issue and in the early 70s change was hard to accept. This account of what happened is what I and a few students remember to be the reason of the gap in the two schools playing for many years.

Is north hardan a 6A school now?

This will be my third attempt to respond to this question of why. Not dodging anything just had some family issues that had to be dealt with. So here goes, from the start of Cawood High School till the football season of 73 Harlan had not lost a game of any sort to CHS. About this time along came Boyd Fox as the football coach at Cawood, he had a big ego and an even bigger mouth and he did what had to be done at CHS that to change the mind set of we are not going to the step children any more.On this end of the county Harlan was the traditional school and did not want to have Cawood as an equal. That being said one issue stands out to be the thing to have put this thing on tilt. In 72 Harlan had elected for their football queen a young lady that just happend to be black and the night that she was to be crowned it came a big rain storm and the powers that be decided not to hold the cermonies.(big mistake). The black community at this time was a pretty large group at HHS during this era and played a central role in the success in sports that Harlan acheived. After this some of the families of the black students felt that HHS was not being fair to their children and decided to send a few students to the county school. So during the football season of 73 Cawood put out a very good football team and waxed Harlan and most every school that they played, but one of the students that transferred from Harlan to Cawood did not have the grades when he left Harlan to play, and Fox allowed him to play anyway. This action caused an investigation from the KHSAA and Cawood had to forfiet any game that this student played in.When all the dust setteled from this the adminastration at HHS decided that they would not play Cawood in any sport that was not mandated by tournment rule. Their reasoning was that Cawood would go to any length to win and that HHS did not have to be a part of it.So as you can see the HHS powers were a little short sided on the issue and in the early 70s change was hard to accept. This account of what happened is what I and a few students remember to be the reason of the gap in the two schools playing for many years.

 

 

That is a pretty accurate description of what happened there #10 but I will expand a little. When Boyd Fox was hired he was under tremendous pressure to win. This happened during the coal boom. Money & support for the Cawood program rolled in. When Fox was hired he brought his skill position people with him. They lived on campus at Cawood. 2 names I remember were Gary Jenkins QB & All Star Everything Gary Grant. Its been 35 yrs and the other names have escaped me. These players came from TN along with most of the coaching staff and an excellent staff they did have. You can imagine what an uproar this caused. What if something like this happened today? The uncrowned queen was a Carr with a younger brother named Frank who later was an outstanding player for Cawood. There was quite a bit of racial tensions at Harlan and several athletes and students left for Cawood & Evarts. The transfer player you mentioned was Bobby Reed. In those days you could play until your 19th birthday and Bobby turned 19 in early Sept. Eligible for maybe 2 games. Harlan quickly released him knowing he would soon be too old but said nothing until after the season was over. Then they they called KHSAA and Cawood had to forfeit several games. Just more bad blood between the schools. I spent the better part of 2 yrs with Frank in college, we had several classes together and car pooled together. We talked many times about the things that happened and here are a few quotes I remember. "I planned to stay at Harlan but not play football" "They wouldn't crown her because she was black" "I was recruited to play football at Cawood" If you want a name send me a PM. The bottom line is Harlan had a racist policy and they ran their best athletes off to other schools, Cawood had a policy of just win regardless of what it takes. Harlan could no longer compete and they also dropped Middlesboro & Corbin in about 1977. I won't make or respond to any further comments about the "olden" days. The thread is already off topic, maybe someone will start a new one about the 70's rivalry. Just for the curious, I spent 12 yrs in the Harlan Ind School System starting way back in the 60's. When ALL these things happened, I saw it, I lived it and I was right there.

Interesting information.

 

I had heard Gary Jennings did come with Fox, but I didn't think Gary Grant did. He did move from Tennessee though.

 

I also thought Cawood beat Harlan in 1969 when Tim Saylor was a senior.

That is a pretty accurate description of what happened there #10 but I will expand a little. When Boyd Fox was hired he was under tremendous pressure to win. This happened during the coal boom. Money & support for the Cawood program rolled in. When Fox was hired he brought his skill position people with him. They lived on campus at Cawood. 2 names I remember were Gary Jenkins QB & All Star Everything Gary Grant. Its been 35 yrs and the other names have escaped me. These players came from TN along with most of the coaching staff and an excellent staff they did have. You can imagine what an uproar this caused. What if something like this happened today? The uncrowned queen was a Carr with a younger brother named Frank who later was an outstanding player for Cawood. There was quite a bit of racial tensions at Harlan and several athletes and students left for Cawood & Evarts. The transfer player you mentioned was Bobby Reed. In those days you could play until your 19th birthday and Bobby turned 19 in early Sept. Eligible for maybe 2 games. Harlan quickly released him knowing he would soon be too old but said nothing until after the season was over. Then they they called KHSAA and Cawood had to forfeit several games. Just more bad blood between the schools. I spent the better part of 2 yrs with Frank in college, we had several classes together and car pooled together. We talked many times about the things that happened and here are a few quotes I remember. "I planned to stay at Harlan but not play football" "They wouldn't crown her because she was black" "I was recruited to play football at Cawood" If you want a name send me a PM. The bottom line is Harlan had a racist policy and they ran their best athletes off to other schools, Cawood had a policy of just win regardless of what it takes. Harlan could no longer compete and they also dropped Middlesboro & Corbin in about 1977. I won't make or respond to any further comments about the "olden" days. The thread is already off topic, maybe someone will start a new one about the 70's rivalry. Just for the curious, I spent 12 yrs in the Harlan Ind School System starting way back in the 60's. When ALL these things happened, I saw it, I lived it and I was right there.

good information for the most part but again some asumptions made. I was in the Harlan Ind system also during the time. There were some racial tensions at Harlan. But, it must be remembered what was going on in the country. One reason that it was worse at Harlan was that there weren't many black students at Cawood and Evarts. I knew the faculty/administration pretty well, and I think its a stretch to say that there was a "Racist Policy at Harlan". That may be your perspective, but I don't think its true. It may have been true of some individuals, who knows, but I don't think it was any kind of "policy". It seems to me that between your post and MTN Pride's there was enough blame, and pettiness to go around. There is no place for win at all costs or racial bigotry. Both are wrong and shameful. Lets hope rivalries are never again based on such things.

to make the assumption that Cawood came into their own because of Harlan players is flat wrong. Cawood was loaded regardless with players like Durham,

Saylor, Williams, Powers, Middleton, Howard, ect. and i could list several more.

As far as Coach Fox, I talked with him about the Reed incident several years back and his version is quiet different than MNT. 10's. Also, what he said about Harlan High i will leave to your imagination so that i can keep posting on here. LOL

Coach Boyd Fox spoke to my team my junior year of high school. I must say that he is an unique character, but a wonderful man to be around, nonetheless. He is an old school guy, and a great mind as well.

 

Here was Fox's ending quote:

 

The average football play lasts for three seconds. Well, h*** boys, I can grab a bear by the *** for three seconds!!!

to make the assumption that Cawood came into their own because of Harlan players is flat wrong. Cawood was loaded regardless with players like Durham,

Saylor, Williams, Powers, Middleton, Howard, ect. and i could list several more.

As far as Coach Fox, I talked with him about the Reed incident several years back and his version is quiet different than MNT. 10's. Also, what he said about Harlan High i will leave to your imagination so that i can keep posting on here. LOL

 

I'm quite sure his version is different

to make the assumption that Cawood came into their own because of Harlan players is flat wrong. Cawood was loaded regardless with players like Durham,

Saylor, Williams, Powers, Middleton, Howard, ect. and i could list several more.

As far as Coach Fox, I talked with him about the Reed incident several years back and his version is quiet different than MNT. 10's. Also, what he said about Harlan High i will leave to your imagination so that i can keep posting on here. LOL

 

 

LB you know what they say about assumptions! I did not in any way say that the success that Cawood enjoyed was only because of transfer students, but even you must admit that it did help. Also if you think my version of these events are untrue go ask someone that was in the thick of it, former Cawood Head Coach, and Harlan High standout Frank Smith.

Master mind? I was told he invented some offensive schemes. If this is the case he is more than a master mind!

Can anyone expand on this? I would be interested to hear what schemes he had been credited as inventing.