14 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

 

Boyle is 21-26 since the beginning of last season, and lost in the first round of the region last year.  I wonder if what has worked in the past with their football athletes just doesn't work with the current crop?  

So when the 20-21 team went to Rupp their leading scorers were all football players in Luke Imfeld (Who came out that year for football) Jagger Gillis and Luke Sheperson. All of which participated in these early morning workouts. Nobody complained then because they were good yet everything was the same as it is now. Now though they aren't good its all footballs fault. Not one person on here has mentioned that there have been several good players quit including Maddox Hager who is 6' 4''. Maybe the problem of their lack of success doesn't reside in the workout program. However, make no mistake there is nobody that wants the basketball team to be more successful outside of the basketball staff than those coaches in the football office. I personally watched several of those same coaches beg Tommy Ziesmer not to quit basketball. There is no more pride in BC athletics than the pride the football coaches show for every single sport in that building.

Mercer County does this also with lifting before school.  I see it both ways.  I could see a potential fatigue problem game day and next morning after a game.  If Mercer were to play at Pulaski on a Tuesday night and not get back until after 11:00 then a turn around of lifting  at 6:00 am the next morning.  Stacking days like that can fatigue the body could lead to injuries.  Rest is as important as anything for young kids.  I have seen baseball kickback on this at Mercer more than basketball. 

Does football/baseball let those same players go to basketball open gyms? 

55 minutes ago, 12th Region Fan said:

Does football/baseball let those same players go to basketball open gyms? 

I am extremely confused as what you mean by "let?'' The workouts in question are not mandatory just as the open gym and baseball workouts wouldn't be when they are not in season. Nobody is making these kids workout and nobody is telling them they can't in any season. Clearly if things were one-sided in the football coaches not allowing them to go to open gym then I would think the basketball coach wouldn't allow them to attend these football workouts. The biggest factor that is in play here are the players themselves are the ones choosing to attend the football workouts. If they then choose not to attend open gym or any other optional event held by another sport during football then that speaks to the culture if that program. Stop making this about football vs everyone else and realize that at BC that is just simply not the case.

47 minutes ago, CAT DIESEL POWER said:

I am extremely confused as what you mean by "let?'' The workouts in question are not mandatory just as the open gym and baseball workouts wouldn't be when they are not in season. Nobody is making these kids workout and nobody is telling them they can't in any season. Clearly if things were one-sided in the football coaches not allowing them to go to open gym then I would think the basketball coach wouldn't allow them to attend these football workouts. The biggest factor that is in play here are the players themselves are the ones choosing to attend the football workouts. If they then choose not to attend open gym or any other optional event held by another sport during football then that speaks to the culture if that program. Stop making this about football vs everyone else and realize that at BC that is just simply not the case.

If you read my prior posts, I said there should be no issue with basketball team working out with the football team. As long as there is open communication between coaches. So no, I’m not making this about football vs everyone else. Was asking a genuine question. 

6 minutes ago, 12th Region Fan said:

If you read my prior posts, I said there should be no issue with basketball team working out with the football team. As long as there is open communication between coaches. So no, I’m not making this about football vs everyone else. Was asking a genuine question. 

I quoted you to answer your question wasn't directing that last part at anyone in particular. Its clear that this post was intended to be about how the BC football program is bad for the basketball team. Sorry if you took what I said as an attack at you that wasn't my intention. Most of the people talking about this have no clue what it is like at BC they see success in one area and not in the area where they want it so they attack the other.

7 hours ago, EagleRare20 said:

Just curious, how do you know exactly "what this is"...

I saw the video of the morning training on social media then asked for details.  Several people chimed in to fill me in.  Basically, it's 5x per week, they start at 7:45 AM, lift everyday, dual sport (basketball/football) players are included but they do shoot arounds on "big game" days.  The football coaches support the basketball coaches.  It's not mandatory.  Lots of people think it's not had a negative impact on the basketball team.

What's your point?  What am I missing?

2 hours ago, 24Rocks said:

I saw the video of the morning training on social media then asked for details.  Several people chimed in to fill me in.  Basically, it's 5x per week, they start at 7:45 AM, lift everyday, dual sport (basketball/football) players are included but they do shoot arounds on "big game" days.  The football coaches support the basketball coaches.  It's not mandatory.  Lots of people think it's not had a negative impact on the basketball team.

What's your point?  What am I missing?

I don’t want to speak for CAT, but I’d say the overall point is that the football workouts are not mandatory, meaning the kids choose to go; that they’ve been done like this for years; that the workouts are not to blame for the basketball team’s woes the last couple years; and that in fact the increase in speed, agility, verticals and stamina actually benefits the team on the basketball floor. 
 

If you got all that, you’re not misssing anything. I’m just surprised that this turned into such a big topic.

The bigger issue for the basketball program is probably being second fiddle for the kids not the actual workout.  Boyle still can-will field a good basketball team most years, but the priority is football (as it should be).  Other teams I.E. Lincoln Co and DCA in their district put basketball first.  Boyle can combat that by having better quality athletes most years, but sometimes not.  I still expect this year Rebels to make some noise. 

16 hours ago, 24Rocks said:

I saw the video of the morning training on social media then asked for details.  Several people chimed in to fill me in.  Basically, it's 5x per week, they start at 7:45 AM, lift everyday, dual sport (basketball/football) players are included but they do shoot arounds on "big game" days.  The football coaches support the basketball coaches.  It's not mandatory.  Lots of people think it's not had a negative impact on the basketball team.

What's your point?  What am I missing?

"Proper preseason and in-season strength training does help with basketball.  It has to be done with consideration for the fatigue accumulated due to games and practices.  That is a far cry from what this is."

When you say "that is a far cry from what this is," I take that as what the football team is doing in the mornings is not taking the athletes well being and fatigue into consideration. 

College basketball players absolutely lift during the season and all year long.  College football players lift during season and all year long.  I can guarantee you Reed Shepherd or any UK basketball player would not go in on a game day or day after a game and do the same workout that a UK lineman would do in the off season but that is what we expect out of a high school basketball player.  This has nothing to do with Boyle specifically because there are several schools throughout the state that do this.  Lifting needs to be sport specific especially during the season.  Most Strength/Weight coaches in high school are a member of the football staff.  College baseball players lift during the season too but would never have a pitcher do a football weightlifting session the day before, day of or next day after pitching.  Having a high school pitcher bench press any time near a day they are pitching is a sure fire way for a shoulder injury. I know it is supposed to be "Optional" at these schools but I would say for the most part it is not really optional for football players.  Again nothing specific to Boyle but general throughout the state. 

That is exactly what I mean.  Strength training for basketball is good when done correctly.  Managing fatigue is one of the most difficult tasks basketball coaches deal with.  In sports with objective measurements of performance, such as powerlifting or track, the coaches have learned how to taper off during the season and peak for a big competition.  In season strength training needs to be based on the practice and game schedule and it's better to err on the side of less, rather than more.  Strength gains are slow to come and slow to go.  Missing a workout or two will not cause a player to lose strength.  In fact, many people will perform better after a layoff.  

2 hours ago, titan101 said:

College basketball players absolutely lift during the season and all year long.  College football players lift during season and all year long.  I can guarantee you Reed Shepherd or any UK basketball player would not go in on a game day or day after a game and do the same workout that a UK lineman would do in the off season but that is what we expect out of a high school basketball player.  This has nothing to do with Boyle specifically because there are several schools throughout the state that do this.  Lifting needs to be sport specific especially during the season.  Most Strength/Weight coaches in high school are a member of the football staff.  College baseball players lift during the season too but would never have a pitcher do a football weightlifting session the day before, day of or next day after pitching.  Having a high school pitcher bench press any time near a day they are pitching is a sure fire way for a shoulder injury. I know it is supposed to be "Optional" at these schools but I would say for the most part it is not really optional for football players.  Again nothing specific to Boyle but general throughout the state. 

Well said.  I can't add much to that.  You summed it up well.  As I said, strength training for basketball is a good thing. The training should be sport specific and take into account the stress of practices and games.  No good college basketball strength program would look like this.  It's too much, too often, and based on the video, not what a basketball player needs.  

You are correct in your assessment that it's general throughout the state.  I talked to a parent from another 12th region school and there's an ongoing conflict with the football coaches and the basketball coaches.  The football coaches want them come in during basketball season and lift at 6 AM and the basketball coaches want them to focus on basketball.  

Boyle has been doing something similar to this since 2014/15. It hasn't been just Haddix. This is no different then having weights in school and having multi-sport athletes take a weight class. The difference is that this is a football-specific group and they get to go a little longer than the regular 50 minute class. I think this is being hyped up and blown out of proportion. Lots of schools have workouts during the school day. The only thing special about this one is that it starts 30 minutes before school and runs through first period. 

It's more about the type of lift on gamedays.  The basketball season is a grueling grind.  It's the longest season on the calendar, and also has impact with the "sickness season".  There are different kinds of strength training.  Basketball players should be doing maintenance lifting during their season.  I don't know anything about the particulars of this situation, but all strength training is not the same strength training.