Getting an uneasy feeling about all this.

3 minutes ago, bugatti said:

Getting an uneasy feeling about all this.

Same. ☹️

I wonder if the Ukrainian F16s are going to get into the fray with Russian MiG-35s and Su-57s.

So many ways this can go bad...

3 hours ago, theguru said:

I wonder if the Ukrainian F16s are going to get into the fray with Russian MiG-35s and Su-57s.

So many ways this can go bad...

Some recent reports say that Russia only has around a dozen Su-57s, I doubt they would risk them in any air to air combat unless they were heavily shielded by other planes.

If the F-16s are up to par with US versions, they'll be more than a match for any Russian planes. Anti-air missiles are a much bigger worry for the F-16s.

1 minute ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Some recent reports say that Russia only has around a dozen Su-57s, I doubt they would risk them in any air to air combat unless they were heavily shielded by other planes.

If the F-16s are up to par with US versions, they'll be more than a match for any Russian planes. Anti-air missiles are a much bigger worry for the F-16s.

On being up to par with the American versions, my guess is no.  

I talked to someone "in the know" about such things last year and we were discussing F35s and that someone told me the version other countries get is a far cry from the American version.  

Now, with the F16 being old news and the F35 being the latest, greatest thing, maybe the F16s are up to standard because they are an older, non-stealth war plane.  

Russia announced today they are willing to negotiate a cease fire, their starting points are no concessions of current land they occupy and Ukraine giving up pursuit of NATO membership. They want someone in the US to mediate the negotiations. 

30 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Russia announced today they are willing to negotiate a cease fire, their starting points are no concessions of current land they occupy and Ukraine giving up pursuit of NATO membership. They want someone in the US to mediate the negotiations. 

That is what I thought was going to happen before the latest escalation. Russia keeps what they have, no NATO for Ukraine, the end. 

4 hours ago, theguru said:

That is what I thought was going to happen before the latest escalation. Russia keeps what they have, no NATO for Ukraine, the end. 

I could see Ukraine letting them keep most of what they took as long as they can join NATO or, Ukraine gets all of their land back for a promise not to join NATO. I don't think Russia will get everything they want, but will have to get enough to save face.

I think US position will be whatever it takes, just to stop the fighting and get a cease fire. I hope the solution doesn't include the US paying either side any cash to stand down. 

ICBMs are pretty much identified at launch by satellite. So Ukraine and the rest of the world knew almost immediately that they'd been launched and based on trajectory, where they were going.

What was unknown until they struck was if the were nuclear or not. I'm sure there was a lot of butt clinching going on last night until it they hit and it was determined they weren't nuclear.

Russia hasn't commented yet to confirm it was an ICBM, but video of the strikes looks pretty clear that it was.

Hopefully this is just a ploy to force negotiations and not an escalation. 

 

I appreciate you all constantly updating this thread. 

37 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

ICBMs are pretty much identified at launch by satellite. So Ukraine and the rest of the world knew almost immediately that they'd been launched and based on trajectory, where they were going.

What was unknown until they struck was if the were nuclear or not. I'm sure there was a lot of butt clinching going on last night until it they hit and it was determined they weren't nuclear.

Russia hasn't commented yet to confirm it was an ICBM, but video of the strikes looks pretty clear that it was.

Hopefully this is just a ploy to force negotiations and not an escalation. 

 

That video looks reversed to me... Where are the explosions?

1 hour ago, TheDeuce said:

That video looks reversed to me... Where are the explosions?

I think you may be correct. However there is a time stamp at the top of the surveillance video running forward. 

I saw a video with larger explosions but the description was in another language. I'll look for a good version of it.

Some reports that it was IRBM (intermediate-range ballistic missile) not ICBM. That's why some are denying it was an ICBM attack.

Multiple reentry vehicles were tracked from the IRBM according to same source.

 

 

On 11/20/2024 at 6:37 PM, Jumper_Dad said:

Russia announced today they are willing to negotiate a cease fire, their starting points are no concessions of current land they occupy and Ukraine giving up pursuit of NATO membership. They want someone in the US to mediate the negotiations. 

Problem is I can't see Ukraine agreeing to that as they get nothing.  Maybe the U.S. will pressure them to accept.  I could see a "No Ukraine in NATO" but in exchange for Russia pulling back from some territory (but probably not all).  There has to be something that let's each side save face/justify why the war happened to its people.  The fear if Russia keeps the territory would be that they use the time to rebuild their forces and then launch new attacks in a few years from their new positions deeper in Ukrainian territory.  Maybe there's a DMZ setup between the two sides?