But schools aren't comparable to a business.

 

Why?

 

Because a business can dismiss the producers of the product who aren't producing enough. (i.e. students passing standardized tests, GPA, graduations rates which are all based on the students performance)

 

Students can't be replaced with better students to see to it that the scores go up.

 

In business, you can fire the managers and the employees who fail to produce.

 

In schools, you can change management but not the employees (i.e. students) so he product production might change a little under new management but you will still have underachievers that can't be removed.

 

:thumb:

 

Sorry, Hatz, but the students are not the employees. The students are the product and according to most assessments the JCPS product is not desirable. The employees are the leadership and teachers and somewhere in that blend of professionals should be the solutions to improve the product.

Sorry, Hatz, but the students are not the employees. The students are the product and according to most assessments the JCPS product is not desirable. The employees are the leadership and teachers and somewhere in that blend of professionals should be the solutions to improve the product.

 

Products are inanimate.

 

Students are thinking, acting, responsible human beings.

Sorry, Hatz, but the students are not the employees. The students are the product and according to most assessments the JCPS product is not desirable. The employees are the leadership and teachers and somewhere in that blend of professionals should be the solutions to improve the product.

 

It's silly to talk about public education like a business, not to mention a little problematic to try and work your way through "the students are the product and the product is undesirable".

 

But imagining for a second that it's not: what would management do here? You have a product that is inefficiently produced at significant cost. The cost to alter the product would be massive and likely require significant concessions from labor, while simultaneously requiring a huge increase in labor costs. It would also involve calculating any number of external factors that the company has no real control over.

 

To me, the answer is simple... the company stops making the unprofitable product.

 

But in this case, the company is government-mandated to continue making the product. So where does that leave us?

Products are inanimate.

 

Students are thinking, acting, responsible human beings.

That is a most interesting, dismissive observation. If our professional administrators and educators think of their students as employees (and I believe there are very few that do), than perhaps you have exposed a view that attempts to abdicate the professionals' responsibility for any outcomes.

It's silly to talk about public education like a business, not to mention a little problematic to try and work your way through "the students are the product and the product is undesirable".

 

But imagining for a second that it's not: what would management do here? You have a product that is inefficiently produced at significant cost. The cost to alter the product would be massive and likely require significant concessions from labor, while simultaneously requiring a huge increase in labor costs. It would also involve calculating any number of external factors that the company has no real control over.

 

To me, the answer is simple... the company stops making the unprofitable product.

 

But in this case, the company is government-mandated to continue making the product. So where does that leave us?

 

Every manager in business has had at some time the dilemma of turning around processes without just throwing more money at the problem to create efficiencies and improve margins. 600 highly compensated administrators in the JCPS system have to possess the combined ingenuity, wisdom and creativity to lead a cadre' of educated professionals toward solving the Jefferson Co. inferior performance. The kids deserve it and if these 600 are unable to do it, than many of them need to be replaced. It happens in smaller school systems regularly.

Products are inanimate.

 

Students are thinking, acting, responsible human beings.

 

It's silly to talk about public education like a business, not to mention a little problematic to try and work your way through "the students are the product and the product is undesirable".

 

But imagining for a second that it's not: what would management do here? You have a product that is inefficiently produced at significant cost. The cost to alter the product would be massive and likely require significant concessions from labor, while simultaneously requiring a huge increase in labor costs. It would also involve calculating any number of external factors that the company has no real control over.

 

To me, the answer is simple... the company stops making the unprofitable product.

 

But in this case, the company is government-mandated to continue making the product. So where does that leave us?

You guys get it. You cannot treat students like thing-a-ma-bobs being produced on assembly line. The countless issues and stresses some kids deal with would make people cry.

 

Here's the truth. Some schools start out with students way behind others. Those teachers may help those students learn and grow, but if they don't meet the chosen standard, they are deemed failures.

 

Example: A high school junior moves into a new school. The student reads at a second grade level and can barely do basic math. The teachers and school specialists work with her tirelessly and in one year, her reading ability improves to 8th grade level and she can now do basic algebra. She takes the standardized tests and falls in the second lowest category of achievement, not reaching the expected proficiency at the junior level. By the metric of tests, she is a failure and so are her teachers. If there are enough students like her in her school (and some schools have MANY), then her whole school gets deemed a failure, too, and people that are looking from the outside will question what the hell is going on in that school or district.

 

However, her teachers will consider the growth that has occurred for her in just one year to be a huge success. We know the truth.

It’s hard to compare schools and teachers. Highlands and beechwood were rated pretty high, but I don’t think anyone thinks that the teachers at Highlands could go to Newport and magically the scores would improve.

 

Back in the late 80’s when KERA came around they tried to move teachers from high performing schools down to the Appalachian schools. It doesn’t work That way, it’s like judging a dentist in Ft Thomas as being superior to a dentist in Harlan because in fort Thomas the patients have cleaner teeth.

Schools should be located close to where the parents live so they can more easily interact with the school, teachers, etc. Many of the poor do not own cars, and Louisville's public transportation system is not the best, especially after business hours. I heard a minority grandmother once say, "I don't mind being poor but it so

("darn") inconvenient."

.

 

Great plan if you want to resegregate the schools in this city.

Great plan if you want to resegregate the schools in this city.

I question whether that would be worse than what busing has yielded.

I question whether that would be worse than what busing has yielded.

 

 

Governor Wallace would be proud.

Edited October 7, 20196 yr by theguru
Rule 13

As some have mentioned, I think that kids who live in poverty have too many strikes against them before they walk into the building.

 

Let’s face it, kids who go to Beechwood or Highlands mostly come from homes that are the least, middle class. They come to school with full bellies, after a good night’s sleep and have parents who are able to provide every little thing they need to succeed. These parents have the time and are invested in making sure homework gets done and who are very involved in PTA, athletic programs, field trips, and fund raising. I feel very lucky to have gone to Beechwood and was able to send my kids there.

 

I am not saying poor kids come from bad homes, but I do work with many people who live in poverty. I have heard stories of kids who sleep in the bathtub because of gun violence. Even parents who are involved are often working two jobs and don’t have the time, money, or power to get as invested in following up with kids and their homework. Of course, there are then kids who come from homes with parents with mental illness, drug addiction, or just too many kids at home. Parents who simply do not care.

 

I don’t know how any school is expected to overcome these issues. Kids are only in school 8 hours a day. Hard to make up for the other 16 hours a day.

As some have mentioned, I think that kids who live in poverty have too many strikes against them before they walk into the building.

 

Let’s face it, kids who go to Beechwood or Highlands mostly come from homes that are the least, middle class. They come to school with full bellies, after a good night’s sleep and have parents who are able to provide every little thing they need to succeed. These parents have the time and are invested in making sure homework gets done and who are very involved in PTA, athletic programs, field trips, and fund raising. I feel very lucky to have gone to Beechwood and was able to send my kids there.

 

I am not saying poor kids come from bad homes, but I do work with many people who live in poverty. I have heard stories of kids who sleep in the bathtub because of gun violence. Even parents who are involved are often working two jobs and don’t have the time, money, or power to get as invested in following up with kids and their homework. Of course, there are then kids who come from homes with parents with mental illness, drug addiction, or just too many kids at home. Parents who simply do not care.

 

I don’t know how any school is expected to overcome these issues. Kids are only in school 8 hours a day. Hard to make up for the other 16 hours a day.

You get it.

As some have mentioned, I think that kids who live in poverty have too many strikes against them before they walk into the building.

 

Let’s face it, kids who go to Beechwood or Highlands mostly come from homes that are the least, middle class. They come to school with full bellies, after a good night’s sleep and have parents who are able to provide every little thing they need to succeed. These parents have the time and are invested in making sure homework gets done and who are very involved in PTA, athletic programs, field trips, and fund raising. I feel very lucky to have gone to Beechwood and was able to send my kids there.

 

I am not saying poor kids come from bad homes, but I do work with many people who live in poverty. I have heard stories of kids who sleep in the bathtub because of gun violence. Even parents who are involved are often working two jobs and don’t have the time, money, or power to get as invested in following up with kids and their homework. Of course, there are then kids who come from homes with parents with mental illness, drug addiction, or just too many kids at home. Parents who simply do not care.

 

I don’t know how any school is expected to overcome these issues. Kids are only in school 8 hours a day. Hard to make up for the other 16 hours a day.

 

You’re exactly right. It’s so hard to break the cycle. When you have the student who does break that cycle it gives a teacher a great feeling.

I am a son of two educators. I am also a parent of two children in public schools. Resources are very important to the success of any schools. I have not seen the statistics, but I bet some of the highest performing schools or districts are also located in the most affluent sections of the state. I also think the involvement of the family in terms of supporting a quality education of the children is most important and that part is very hard for schools to do much about. Resources and how they are used are part of the problem -- no doubt. But, getting the family involved in the educational experience of the young is the root problem. Finding ways to engage and supplement the schools teaching is the true key to a districts success or failure. In some areas of the state that is much easier to do than other areas of the state. My thoughts for what they are worth.