I was reading Chief Smoke's post and got to thinking that there may not be a right or wrong answer to "Best Ever" bc of different eras, style of play, newer rule changes, etc.. I'll put it this way, I would take my favorite Brett Favre and mention other greats like Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway ....heck, we all could go back and say people like Staubach, Bradshaw, Unitis and yes, maybe the best of all .... Bart Starr when all were in their prime and feel pretty good about life in general. :lol:

See below

 

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I will answer both with this one quote / post since they cover the same ...I probably used the wrong term / description by "Thug". I was mainly speaking of his several different what I thought were Cheap Shot plays, hits, etc.. , along with his seemingly to me anyway constant running mouth and show boating. I didn't mean criminal or like all of these on t.v. rioting, burning cars, etc., etc.

My belief or the way I like to see a player who makes a play just act like it's no big deal ..."that's my job, what I am supposed to do" and not like it's the first big play that they've ever made in their life. Same thing goes for these guys that score td's, make a big catch performing an act / dance, etc.. Just hand the ball to the official and go to your sideline, then if you want to give a "high five," or feel you have to chest thump and jump around then do so I guess, just don't show the entire stadium that you're a self absorbed idiot.

I realize that most don't feel like that these days, I am old school in thinking and still believe that it's about the team and not individual.

That's fine if you think he doesn't play the game the right way. I have no problem with you feeling that way. But I have a small problem with Sherman being used in the same sentence with Pac Man. That's more of what I was upset about.

Michael Jordan used illegal sneakers. Do you consider him a cheater too?

Michael jordan didn't have the opponents plays handed to him ahead of time or know the opposition teams signals etc. Notice I didn't even mention the latest scandal.

Not even Peyton himself would agree that he's the most talented. That's just an absurd notion. His arm talent has never been elite.

I agree. Peyton was far from the most talented. Peyton's legacy is he was the most cerebral. He could pick apart the opposition, he was far from the most talented. I still stick with Marino and Rodgers as the most talented as in they could make every single throw in the book with the veolcity and accuracy that couldn't be matched. Remember the most talented does not mean the best as in all aspects of a QB. The #1 thing a QB gets judged on is winning period and winning championships, that and that alone is why Brady is the GOAT.

First of all, it is a bad sign that you are listening to the friends you listen to that put you up to this! Lol.

 

But, here goes....

 

1. Starr won 5 titles.

2. Starr called his own plays.... no one does that any more.

3. Starr's era, talent was spread over fewer teams.

4. Less protection for QBs in Starr's day, and he was getting hammered by guys like Night Train Lane, Butkus, Bednarik, Karras, Huff, Deacon Jones, etc. They would put those guys in jail now for the way they played the game.

 

This is not a slam dunk argument. I do think Brady & Belichick are truly GREAT in every sense of the word. But, if I have to pick the #1 QB of all time, the edge goes to Starr. But, it is an edge, not a wide margin.

 

And, I am biased. Lombardi, the Packers & Starr were my first favorite team and I still love that era of the NFL.

 

The magic of Vince Lombardi NFL Videos - YouTube

With that criteria then I'd go to my old stand by Otto Graham

played 10 years and every year led his team to the Championship game winning 7 titles.

 

Playing in the championship game every single year you played in the league for 10 years is something that will never be surpassed. Also 7 championships means Otto Graham>Brett Starr

Crazy to think that had Seattle and Atlanta both decided to run the ball that Brady may still have 3 rings. Life is crazy.

With that criteria then I'd go to my old stand by Otto Graham

played 10 years and every year led his team to the Championship game winning 7 titles.

 

Playing in the championship game every single year you played in the league for 10 years is something that will never be surpassed. Also 7 championships means Otto Graham>Brett Starr

 

Good argument. Graham's Browns were my Dad's favorite team growing up. Funny you would bring them up to counter my argument. :thumb:

If i had to choose between Manning and Brady, its Brady all day. How many times did we see Peyton throw a horrible pass for a crucial turnover in crunch time vs Touchdown Tommy coming through in crunch time. Brady all day

Not sure how some people are even debating this. Brady is without a doubt the best ever. To me, when discussing the best ever, the first thing that comes to mind is winning. Brady has the best winning percentage all time at .779 (Manning .702), is three wins shy of the most all time (Manning/Favre 186)- which he will obliterate on his current pace, and has the most Super Bowl rings and Super Bowl MVPs of all time.

 

Peyton was a great QB. One of the best ever. However, I don't think its fair to say he would have 6 or 7 titles had he played in New England. Peyton struggled quite a bit in the playoffs and had many Super Bowl appearances taken away from him by Brady himself. I guess I just don't understand how this can be debated.

 

Brady is the greatest winner and champion to ever play the position, period.

Crazy to think that had Seattle and Atlanta both decided to run the ball that Brady may still have 3 rings. Life is crazy.

 

Saw a great tweet after the game saying that Dan Quinn and Pete Carroll should be put into the New England Ring of Honor for helping aid the Pats win their last two Superbowls.

Michael jordan didn't have the opponents plays handed to him ahead of time or know the opposition teams signals etc. Notice I didn't even mention the latest scandal.

Did Brady do that? I'm a Patriot hater as well, don't get me wrong, but you have to respect what Brady has accomplished.

Good argument. Graham's Browns were my Dad's favorite team growing up. Funny you would bring them up to counter my argument. :thumb:

I've always carried the Otto Graham torch. I think he and Paul Brown were Bellichick and Brady long before Bellichick and Brady.

 

Bellichick is thought of as the GOAT just like Brady is because it's current and hip. Fact of the matter is Brown and Graham accomplished even more together and I will always think Brown was the all time best especially with all his innovations.

 

 

One of my sons friends made a statement the other night that he can't wait until he's 40 (he's 21

now) arguing with some young kid who doesn't think Brady was the GOAT. I told him he will have the same issue that every generation has. If it's current then society wants to label the best current player as the GOAT. ESPN did it with Michael Jordan and the generation that grew up with ESPN and MJ, well they convinced everyone he was the GOAT. I think Oscar was but the MJ generation never saw Oscar so they only know what they see.

I've always carried the Otto Graham torch. I think he and Paul Brown were Bellichick and Brady long before Bellichick and Brady.

 

Bellichick is thought of as the GOAT just like Brady is because it's current and hip. Fact of the matter is Brown and Graham accomplished even more together and I will always think Brown was the all time best especially with all his innovations.

 

Being an old Paris guy, I believe Blanton Collier was a big part of their success. Yes, those guys were great!

And with the 3rd pick in the 6th round of the 2000 draft, the Bengals draft Tom Brady instead of Neil Rackers.

 

Akili Smith says thank you.

Most accomplished for sure.

 

Most talented, no not close.

 

GOAT, probably so...hard to imagine arguing anyone else at this point.

 

I guess it depends on your criteria. For me, winning is the criteria. Otto Graham did better than any body else. I think there was a song written about him. It went something like, "Nobody does it better makes me feel sad for the rest

Nobody does it half as good as you..." Well, maybe that wasn't referring to football, but the hook works for Graham.

 

Read more: Carly Simon - Nobody Does It Better Lyrics | MetroLyrics

 

First of all, it is a bad sign that you are listening to the friends you listen to that put you up to this! Lol.

 

But, here goes....

 

1. Starr won 5 titles.

2. Starr called his own plays.... no one does that any more.

3. Starr's era, talent was spread over fewer teams.

4. Less protection for QBs in Starr's day, and he was getting hammered by guys like Night Train Lane, Butkus, Bednarik, Karras, Huff, Deacon Jones, etc. They would put those guys in jail now for the way they played the game.

 

This is not a slam dunk argument. I do think Brady & Belichick are truly GREAT in every sense of the word. But, if I have to pick the #1 QB of all time, the edge goes to Starr. But, it is an edge, not a wide margin.

 

And, I am biased. Lombardi, the Packers & Starr were my first favorite team and I still love that era of the NFL.

 

The magic of Vince Lombardi NFL Videos - YouTube

 

You almost got it right. I like the criteria you use, winning. But there is one better than Starr.

 

With that criteria then I'd go to my old stand by Otto Graham

played 10 years and every year led his team to the Championship game winning 7 titles.

 

Playing in the championship game every single year you played in the league for 10 years is something that will never be surpassed. Also 7 championships means Otto Graham>Brett Starr

 

I can't believe I didn't have to be the one to bring up Graham. I do it every time one of these GOAT threads arises and I provide the criteria, such as @Hellbird did here.

 

Not sure how some people are even debating this. Brady is without a doubt the best ever. To me, when discussing the best ever, the first thing that comes to mind is winning. Brady has the best winning percentage all time at .779 (Manning .702), is three wins shy of the most all time (Manning/Favre 186)- which he will obliterate on his current pace, and has the most Super Bowl rings and Super Bowl MVPs of all time.

 

Peyton was a great QB. One of the best ever. However, I don't think its fair to say he would have 6 or 7 titles had he played in New England. Peyton struggled quite a bit in the playoffs and had many Super Bowl appearances taken away from him by Brady himself. I guess I just don't understand how this can be debated.

 

Brady is the greatest winner and champion to ever play the position, period.

 

No, Brady is not (see bolded above). This isn't just my opinion. It is backed up by the facts. Look into Otto Graham's record and you will see Brady doesn't come close to his accomplishments in the winning department. Someone has mentioned that Brady has played in the era of free agency and this is definitely an argument in his favor. But how can you argue with taking your team to the league championship game in EVERY season you played (10) and winning-it-all 7 times? There are those who discount Graham because he played so long ago, but that isn't really an argument. You can only compare people by looking at what they did in comparison to their contemporaries. Graham wins. That's why he is the GOAT.

 

If you won't take it from me or Hellbird, listen to Peter King of SI in his book Sport's Illustrated Greatest Quarterbacks. He ranks Graham as #1 for his 10 championship games in 10 seasons, 7 championships in those 10 years and 7 years leading the league in passing. Also has the highest winning percentage in regular season games by far. If you want to win, go with "Automatic Otto."

 

This is not to say that Brady isn't in the discussion. He is among the elites of all time and hard to put another ahead of him from the last 20 years.