Quick question for the BGP body. Why is it since the cold war ended do we still consider the Russians our enemy still but consider the countries that sponsor terrorism our friends? It seems we could be stronger world wide with the Russians at our side more than the middle eastern countries. I'm sure there is more to it than that so inform me.

Quick question for the BGP body. Why is it since the cold war ended do we still consider the Russians our enemy still but consider the countries that sponsor terrorism our friends? It seems we could be stronger world wide with the Russians at our side more than the middle eastern countries. I'm sure there is more to it than that so inform me.

 

I'm no expert, but Russian relations have soured since Putin has basically become a dictator. He has been in power for nearly 20 years. In many ways the only difference is there is no Soviet Union...yet.

 

I agree with you on questioning why we are allies with the Saudis.

I'm no expert, but Russian relations have soured since Putin has basically become a dictator. He has been in power for nearly 20 years. In many ways the only difference is there is no Soviet Union...yet.

 

I agree with you on questioning why we are allies with the Saudis.

 

 

There should be no question. The Saudis have the United States (regardless of controlling party) over a barrel - literally.

 

Due to the 'petro-dollar' (the fact that all nations on the globe must hold US (Fed Reserve issued) dollars to buy oil) the Sauidi control the financial security of United States. If they agree (and have OPEC agree) to start selling oil in something other than the 'petro-dollar' then nations across the globe can dump their US dollar assets - crashing the dollar and killing our (and much of the globes) economy.

 

Its a horrible truth that no one in power acknowledges. And this is regardless of 'party'.

I agree that the content of the emails is the most important part of this. What was in the emails? All I have seen referenced so far is emails that talk bad about Bernie. Where is the content that primaries were rigged? Can someone tell me how primaries were rigged?

Quick question for the BGP body. Why is it since the cold war ended do we still consider the Russians our enemy still but consider the countries that sponsor terrorism our friends? It seems we could be stronger world wide with the Russians at our side more than the middle eastern countries. I'm sure there is more to it than that so inform me.

 

I thought they were all enemies. Shows what I know. :lol2:

I agree that the content of the emails is the most important part of this. What was in the emails? All I have seen referenced so far is emails that talk bad about Bernie. Where is the content that primaries were rigged? Can someone tell me how primaries were rigged?

 

Good question. How were the primaries rigged?

The bank robber blaming the security cameras for being caught :ohbrother:

I'm so confused.

 

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0&referer=https://t.co/iRcg72eRWm

The bank robber blaming the security cameras for being caught :ohbrother:

 

In fairness, the two issues are not mutually exclusive. One can criticize the DNC and find a foreign power meddling in our election to be troubling.

 

Even more than that, I think there's been a grotesque shift in how the American public, especially on the right, has viewed Russia since this election kicked off. Obama was excoriated in these forums when Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago as being too weak to prevent Russian expansion. Mitt Romney was hailed as prescient for his listing Russia as the US's greatest geopolitical threat during the debates in 2012. Yet, here we are in 2016 and Trump is not only expressing reverence for Putin, openly musing about whether he'd fulfill the US's obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty if Russia were to extend its dominion into the Baltic states, and stating his willingness to lift sanctions and recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but his supporters are now seemingly on board. There's a post in another thread with someone wondering "what's so bad about Russia anyway?" I'm dumbstruck by all of this.

In fairness, the two issues are not mutually exclusive. One can criticize the DNC and find a foreign power meddling in our election to be troubling.

 

Even more than that, I think there's been a grotesque shift in how the American public, especially on the right, has viewed Russia since this election kicked off. Obama was excoriated in these forums when Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago as being too weak to prevent Russian expansion. Mitt Romney was hailed as prescient for his listing Russia as the US's greatest geopolitical threat during the debates in 2012. Yet, here we are in 2016 and Trump is not only expressing reverence for Putin, openly musing about whether he'd fulfill the US's obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty if Russia were to extend its dominion into the Baltic states, and stating his willingness to lift sanctions and recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but his supporters are now seemingly on board. There's a post in another thread with someone wondering "what's so bad about Russia anyway?" I'm dumbstruck by all of this.

 

Has it been proven that Russia was behind the hacks? Like actually proven, and not some report from an obscure, bottom budget news agency? If it has been confirmed that it was Russia, has it been confirmed that it was in any way related or order by Trump? Saying "I hope Russia finds Hillary's emails," and providing concrete support (money) are two entirely different things.

 

What we do know is that the DNC, Hillary's campaign and MSM have colluded together to, at the very least, sway the primary election. The emails that leak prove this. People who are saying that Russia is trying to manipulate our election, are just downright laughable. Isn't that exactly what Hillary did in the primaries?

 

But, I agree that Russia is not our friend.

In fairness, the two issues are not mutually exclusive. One can criticize the DNC and find a foreign power meddling in our election to be troubling.

 

Even more than that, I think there's been a grotesque shift in how the American public, especially on the right, has viewed Russia since this election kicked off. Obama was excoriated in these forums when Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago as being too weak to prevent Russian expansion. Mitt Romney was hailed as prescient for his listing Russia as the US's greatest geopolitical threat during the debates in 2012. Yet, here we are in 2016 and Trump is not only expressing reverence for Putin, openly musing about whether he'd fulfill the US's obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty if Russia were to extend its dominion into the Baltic states, and stating his willingness to lift sanctions and recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but his supporters are now seemingly on board. There's a post in another thread with someone wondering "what's so bad about Russia anyway?" I'm dumbstruck by all of this.

 

Russia is evil and one of the biggest threats to our freedom. You will never hear me say any different. But the other side of this I find humour in , is that some on the left want to paint Clinton as tough on Russia now. She hit the reset button , she is the one with shady relationships there , her husband has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees from them.

 

But if there has been a switch in mentality I think it's with the working class who are just tired of money going overseas . I get that mentality.

And, if it does turn out to be a Russian Hack, doesn't it then seem like a good reason to explore, more in depth, the possibilities that Hillary's private server was also hacked by the Russians? It seems like if you can hack the DNC server, you should have no problem hacking into a personal email account.

Has it been proven that Russia was behind the hacks? Like actually proven, and not some report from an obscure, bottom budget news agency? If it has been confirmed that it was Russia, has it been confirmed that it was in any way related or order by Trump? Saying "I hope Russia finds Hillary's emails," and providing concrete support (money) are two entirely different things.

 

What we do know is that the DNC, Hillary's campaign and MSM have colluded together to, at the very least, sway the primary election. The emails that leak prove this. People who are saying that Russia is trying to manipulate our election, are just downright laughable. Isn't that exactly what Hillary did in the primaries?

 

But, I agree that Russia is not our friend.

 

I wouldn't latch on to "proven," but the consensus opinion points toward Russian involvement, including reporting on the FBI's investigation into it, which seems to be pointing toward that conclusion as well. I'll take a wait-and-see approach, but the possibility should be alarming.

 

The release of these emails seems to have been strategically timed for maximum impact at the start of the convention. I think it was patently obvious to everyone that the DNC and Democratic establishment preferred Clinton over Sanders, but the release of the emails certainly sowed discord between Sanders' supporters and Clinton at the precise time they were trying to reconcile and unite the party. I don't think the revelations from the emails were earth-shattering, but the timing was meant to cause chaos. If Wikileaks was able to get these emails through Russian hacking, then it would certainly mean they were trying to affect the election.

 

I'm not going to indulge in the conspiracy theories that Trump was behind it or stands to benefit from Russian largess if he wins (though, I think his refusal to release his tax returns is fair game), even if I do find his advocacy and enthusiasm for Russian hackers to produce more emails to be off-putting. But if Russia was behind this it should be troubling regardless. And I think it's well worth discussing Russia and the foreign policy outcomes this election portends for them independent of the email hacks. But if they are proven to be behind it then it ratchets up the seriousness of these issues considerably.

And, if it does turn out to be a Russian Hack, doesn't it then seem like a good reason to explore, more in depth, the possibilities that Hillary's private server was also hacked by the Russians? It seems like if you can hack the DNC server, you should have no problem hacking into a personal email account.

 

Yes, that is my concern. And there's a lot more information that could be damaging to the country in the wrong hands on the server of the Secretary of State than on the DNC server.

In fairness, the two issues are not mutually exclusive. One can criticize the DNC and find a foreign power meddling in our election to be troubling.

 

Even more than that, I think there's been a grotesque shift in how the American public, especially on the right, has viewed Russia since this election kicked off. Obama was excoriated in these forums when Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago as being too weak to prevent Russian expansion. Mitt Romney was hailed as prescient for his listing Russia as the US's greatest geopolitical threat during the debates in 2012. Yet, here we are in 2016 and Trump is not only expressing reverence for Putin, openly musing about whether he'd fulfill the US's obligations under the North Atlantic Treaty if Russia were to extend its dominion into the Baltic states, and stating his willingness to lift sanctions and recognize Crimea as part of Russia, but his supporters are now seemingly on board. There's a post in another thread with someone wondering "what's so bad about Russia anyway?" I'm dumbstruck by all of this.

 

You and me both. Dumbstruck is the perfect word. I have zero clue what is going on anymore.