I think it's unfair to suggest that the coaches who are against this plan were somehoe asleep at the wheel or didn't care to voice their opinions earlier. There's no way to know whether they complained to the association or to what degree they participated in the decision.

 

Frankly, I think they have valid concerns. You can characterize it anyway you like to make it sound wonderful; but it really is watering down the competition. And I don't see how it can be assumed that the earlier changes made football in the state any better or that they did not, in fact, make it worse. Such a concept is too hard to quantify really.

 

Just my two "Abe Lincolns." :thumb:

 

I don't think it is unfair at all and there are a couple of ways to find out if they participated in the decision. You approach Coach Mueller about his participation since he spoke out against it and find out what he did and I will approach a couple representatives of the KFCA and ask them what Coach Mueller spoke out against (or if he spoke out at all) and then you and I can compare notes in this thread.

 

I also challenge anyone else that wants to defend their coach to do the same. Any takers?

I don't think it is unfair at all and there are a couple of ways to find out if they participated in the decision. You approach Coach Mueller about his participation since he spoke out against it and find out what he did and I will approach a couple representatives of the KFCA and ask them what Coach Mueller spoke out against (or if he spoke out at all) and then you and I can compare notes in this thread.

 

I also challenge anyone else that wants to defend their coach to do the same. Any takers?

I'll go out on a limb and say my coach wasn't there.......:irked:

I don't think it is unfair at all and there are a couple of ways to find out if they participated in the decision. You approach Coach Mueller about his participation since he spoke out against it and find out what he did and I will approach a couple representatives of the KFCA and ask them what Coach Mueller spoke out against (or if he spoke out at all) and then you and I can compare notes in this thread.

 

I also challenge anyone else that wants to defend their coach to do the same. Any takers?

That's my point. I think it's a little unfair without knowing. That's all I was saying.

Yes the Centre College meeting does not have 100% attendance. But it is mostly Head Football Coaches. It is the Awards Dinner for the KFCA. It is one of the meetings of the KFCA each year. It is the only meeting where the coaches can have direct contact with the KHSAA Assistant Commisioner for football who comes to answer questions and concerns about football in the state. The other meeting of the KFCA is at the state championships and is very well attended. At both of these meetings the 6 Class system was discussed and explained.

 

The 6 class system has been discused and debated for almost 9 months on the Ky Football Coaches List Serve through our email system. The idea is to get the feedback, answer questions and concerns AND to see what the Coaches across the state think about and are concerned about. There has been a lot of give and take and great discussions.

 

The football advisory committee is just that. It advises the KHSAA of the concerns and needs of football across the state. There are representatives from every classification and area of the state on this committee.

 

Finally the KHSAA Board of Control has representatives for all over the state and they voted 14-0 to support the change to a 6 class system. I would think that if any coach truely had major concerns he would have had the opportunity to make those concerns known and they may have done that. I really do not know. As with most change there will be some problems that must be dealt with.

So is there an official posting for the teams in each new division??

and a voice of reason comes out of the wilderness........

 

 

 

Thanks for the post. I realize you didn't have to, but did anyway. :thumb:

 

It's about impossible to have everybody see things the same way, so it doesn't surprise me that there is this much debate, but I can honestly say that I think in the end football in the state of KY will be better for it.

 

Along with Warrior1 and you I'm in total agreement. Let the continued intrest in fooball stay forever at a high level in this state and it will continue to progress. Being for or against doesn't matter just keep the intrest alive and things will inprove as it has in the past. IMHO it has.

That's my point. I think it's a little unfair without knowing. That's all I was saying.

 

The only thing here that is unfair is coaches waiting a year and a half to complain to the media (thus stabbing their own coaching association, the KHSAA, and the Board of Control in the back) about the outcome of the 6 class system when they failed to get involved or speak up when they were given an opportunity to be part of the solution.

The Kentucky Football Coaches list serve has been a place to give and recieve information of this topic for nearly two years. There were staements to the point that if you had any concerns, contact your representative. Any coach that claims ignorance only has himself to blame.

I don't think it is unfair at all and there are a couple of ways to find out if they participated in the decision. You approach Coach Mueller about his participation since he spoke out against it and find out what he did and I will approach a couple representatives of the KFCA and ask them what Coach Mueller spoke out against (or if he spoke out at all) and then you and I can compare notes in this thread.

 

I also challenge anyone else that wants to defend their coach to do the same. Any takers?

Help me out here please. Did the coaches vote the 6 class system through or was it the KHSAA ? Radining these posts it sounds like it was the coaches doing at this meeting.

I don't think it is unfair at all and there are a couple of ways to find out if they participated in the decision. You approach Coach Mueller about his participation since he spoke out against it and find out what he did and I will approach a couple representatives of the KFCA and ask them what Coach Mueller spoke out against (or if he spoke out at all) and then you and I can compare notes in this thread.

 

I also challenge anyone else that wants to defend their coach to do the same. Any takers?

 

 

To my good friend Guru (and you had to know I'd respond), I know for a fact that Mueller made his opposition to the additional classes known, if not to the KFCA, to the KHSAA. So yeah, I'll take that challenge my friend.

Please don't argue that if he had attended the KFCA meeting (which he may have or may not have, I don't know and don't care because its not dispositive of your criticism) and spoken out against 6 classes, he may have been able to influence the vote. You are supposed to arrest people on crack, not use it:banana: Jesus Christ could be the head coach at Highlands and he still would not have been able to influence the other coaches in this state when it came to this issue. The have nots greatly out number the haves and it comes into play on issues like this one. Surely YOU realize this. It would be like Yeagle trying to convince a majority of rural football coaches not to support a proposal that would prohibit out of district players from participating. So the real issue boils down to whether or not Mueller made his opposition known before the BOC voted (since that was the determing vote) and the answer to that question is a definite YES. Whether he made his position known to the KFCA or its advisory committee, I don't know. Regardless, he voiced his opinion during the overall process. And that is a FACT my fellow folically challenged friend:D . If you think this response is a little strong, remember who fired the first shot across the bow without taking the time to first inquire as to Mueller's actions. Its not like you don't know people close to the situation.:laugh:

 

And for the record, Mueller never complained that he wasn't given the opportunity to voice his opinion or that the KFCA voting process was somehow unfair or flawed. He simply stated in the newspaper articles that I read that he was not in favor of 6 classes. Nothing more; nothing less. If you have articles where he criticized the KFCA for not getting more input before they voted, I'd love to read them. He is entitled to say he thinks its a mistake whether he wrote a 20 page memo in opposition to it or he said nothing at all to anyone (again for the record, he did). However, if he had complained that he did not think the KFCA had considered all the ramifications of this issue and yet had failed to provide his insight as to those ramifications is spite of being given the opportunity to do so, I'd agree with your criticism of him, but he did no such thing and that is not the case here.

 

And it is irrefutable that for at least two state champions, winning a state championship will be made easier and that thus there is some watering down of a championship ring. If Dixie wins a state championship in 5A (and I hope they do), that championship, without having to play T and X ,will have been easier than a state championship for which they would have had to play X and T. Impossible to argue to the contrary and thus it is de facto watered down. Will the kids wear their rings with just as much pride as the kids that won them when there was only 4 championships? Of course, and they MOST DEFINITELY should. This whole watering down stuff is a non issue in my mind though.

 

The real issue to me is simply: is 6 classes fairer to the kids playing football in Ky? I think it is. Size matters in football. It simply does. Sure, smaller schools can beat bigger schools from time to time, but the fact that we have any classes at all is dispositive of the debate that size matters in football. And with the range of disparities found in 1A and 4A being greater than the range in disparities found in 2A and 3A, it (creating 6 classes) was the right thing to do to correct that situation. There are some advantages and disadvantages that the KHSAA can do nothing about, nor should it do anything about. Some advantages are earned through hard work and some disadvantages are self imposed. Size of schools however, does not fit in either of those categories, thus the KHSAA did the right thing in addressing that issue.

 

Will going to 6 classes be good for Ky football? No one can definitely say whether it will or will not at this time. I can see arguments that it will help create more enthusiasm in some schools, yet I realize it will still be the current "have" schools that play in the championship games year in and year out. Hopefully, no coach believes that just being able to make the playoffs is going to be some magic elixor for his program. It will not. But since it will correct the size disparities, I think it was the right thing to do and hope than 10 years from now we'll be debating whether the continued improvement in Ky. football was caused by going to six classes or for other reasons, and not debating whether the decline in Ky football was caused by going to 6 classes or for other reasons.

 

Finally Ru, lest you think I was just in a grouchy mood this morning, I do agree with you that 6 classes was the right thing to do (and thus disagree with Mueller). I also likewise hope that Mr. Tackett and the folks at the KHSAA see the benefit and wisdom of the 2-2-2 championship game format. Football can, if they allow it, develop the same type of feel, excitement and pageantry that the Sweet 16 has. With the right support and encouragement, football can become the big money maker for the KHSAA that the Sweet 16 is, and going with the 2-2-2 format will go a long way in making that happen. Hopefully those same superintendants that initially complained about football playoff games on Friday (because it caused kids to miss school on Fridays) but then reversed themselves and said missing school on Thurs and Fridays would be okay if we went to 6 classes won't forget that reversal. They would be hypocrits if they did, particularly in light of the Sweet 16 format. Any school affected could easily make up the lost day or two by using the snow days or heavens to goodness, extending the school year a day or two. I'd like to think the excitement and pride the revised format would bring to the schools participating and football overall in the state would greatly outweigh any inconvenience caused to the schools, the administrators, the students and the teachers.

 

And warrior1, I agree with your post. Well stated. Its been talked about and debated for quite some time. Its not a knee jerk reaction to the public private split.

 

LN out. I've called work to get done in the office.

My gosh lneck, could you do it in 10,000 words or less next time? I will try to be brief.

 

You used a law enforcement analogy so I will use one too. Some people think when they call the police they are entitled to talk to the Chief of Police because an Officer or a Detective are not good enough for them. This sounds like one of those cases.

 

If you say Coach Mueller talked to all those Chiefs I believe you, what I know for a fact is he did NOT talk to any of the Indians at the KFCA which is where he (and any other coach with an issue) should have addressed the 6 class system.

 

Coach Yeagle has nothing to do with this. And, the difference between you and me, is you defend anything Highlands to the bitter end where I have no problem jumping off of the Tiger bandwagon if I believe it is off course (to help push it back on course, of course).

 

I will stipulate that of all the coaches that spoke out against 6 classes after it was passed, Coach Mueller offered the softest criticism. And don't get me wrong, I think Coach Mueller is a fantastic football coach, I just think he could have taken a little higher road on this issue.

 

Also, I did inquire about Coach Mueller's actions and knew that he did not talk to the Indians at the KFCA but I decided not to share that info just yet hoping that someone would take the challenge.

 

About the hair, I wear mine short because I look good, you wear your hair short because Henry says you look like Donald Trump when you let it grow out.

Help me out here please. Did the coaches vote the 6 class system through or was it the KHSAA ? Radining these posts it sounds like it was the coaches doing at this meeting.

 

The KY Football Coaches Advisory Committee recommended the 6 class system to the Board of Control which approved it.

About the hair, I wear mine short because I look good, you wear your hair short because Henry says you look like Donald Trump when you let it grow out.

Oooooh, THAT has to hurt!

Oooooh, THAT has to hurt!

 

 

It do, it really do. Hair do that is:D Then again, if I had his money, I'd take his hair in a New York minute.

It do, it really do. Hair do that is:D Then again, if I had his money, I'd take his hair in a New York minute.

 

Trump or theguru? :walk: