You will find no greater proponent of the maxim of Separation than me.

 

That said, This tower is on the campus of a Seminary that is a landmark in the small community. Has it even been established who holds the deed to the property?

 

From LHL article on this. Asbury owns the land but sold the structure to the city. I bet the transation was one of those $1 deals to release the Seminary of liability - in case the thing is blown down, catches fire, etc.

Everyone wants Christians to be tolerant and bow down to pressure.

 

What about others, shouldn't they be tolerant as well.

 

All I see is intolerance toward Christians.

 

I have had my fill of it, as a Christian I am no longer going to be tolerant. If others cant then I will be like them and fight for my belief and religion.

Everyone wants Christians to be tolerant and bow down to pressure.

 

What about others, shouldn't they be tolerant as well.

 

All I see is intolerance toward Christians.

 

I have had my fill of it, as a Christian I am no longer going to be tolerant. If others cant then I will be like them and fight for my belief and religion.

 

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take your [am]shirt, let him have your [an]coat also. 41 Whoever [ao]forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

 

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may [ap]be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

 

Matthew 5:38-47

Everyone wants Christians to be tolerant and bow down to pressure.

 

What about others, shouldn't they be tolerant as well.

 

All I see is intolerance toward Christians.

 

I have had my fill of it, as a Christian I am no longer going to be tolerant. If others cant then I will be like them and fight for my belief and religion.

 

That ship sailed a long time ago. Always good for a chuckle mountain ref.

You will find no greater proponent of the maxim of Separation than me.

 

That said, This tower is on the campus of a Seminary that is a landmark in the small community. Has it even been established who holds the deed to the property?

 

The water tower sits on property owned by Asbury University (used to be Asbury College) not the seminary. They are separate institutions. Let me repeat my previous post because I believe it to be accurate in describing the situation.

 

As I understand it, Asbury College owned the ground and the water tower at one time (the school has an interesting history). Then the school sold the water tower to the city but not the ground it sits on. The contract for the sale of the water tower stipulated that the cross must remain on the water tower.

 

How does this change whether or not the cross should come down?

 

A couple of important facts: 1) the city owns the water tower. 2) Asbury University owns the ground the water tower sits on. 3) when the university/college sold the water tower to the city of Wilmore the contract stipulated that the cross must remain on the water tower.

Let's not kid ourselves.......the Freedom From Religion Foundation isn't concerned with religion in general, just Christianity.

A couple of important facts: 1) the city owns the water tower. 2) Asbury University owns the ground the water tower sits on. 3) when the university/college sold the water tower to the city of Wilmore the contract stipulated that the cross must remain on the water tower.

 

My personal opinion is that this should never have become an issue. It's not that I don't have a problem with it, but that I actually really like connection with the university. I think it's neat, and without ever knowingly being in that area of the state it seems to be a welcome bit of character. And frankly, as often as people have legitimate gripes, this reeks of someone taking a stand against something I just can't see as a huge deal.

 

I also feel like your first two facts lend toward the water tower remaining unchanged. I also feel like the third fact doesn't hold a lot of water. You can have a contract for anything, but if it includes something illegal it isn't valid. There was a case years ago where I believe an individual willed a plot of land for a park where blacks couldn't use it. Whatever city it was built the park with the restrictions, but obviously they didn't stand. Either they had to not follow the restrictions or give the land back to the estate. I don't remember which way the city decided, but point being the contract here doesn't carry a lot of weight if the actions violate the 1st Amendment. If the water tower would go back to the University, I honestly have no idea what would happen. It still involves a public utility but owned by a private school.

Let's not kid ourselves.......the Freedom From Religion Foundation isn't concerned with religion in general, just Christianity.

 

Kinda like how Liberty Counsel is only for religious liberty for Christians?

Kinda like how Liberty Counsel is only for religious liberty for Christians?

Probably.

Probably.

 

Really, you can't be certain? Surely you can.

Kinda like how Liberty Counsel is only for religious liberty for Christians?

 

This is true but doesn't make his point untrue.

 

Just like 90% of cases taken up by the ACLU are liberal causes.

@Bipsic, the fact the college/university sold the water tower to the city with the stipulation that the cross remain on top of it may not prevent the removal because the court could decide that it wasn't a valid contract because it now violates a "separation" law. I wasn't implying that the stipulation in the contract would require the cross remain, I was just stating the facts as I understood them. It does add another layer to the controversy to be decided on legal issues.

 

All of that aside...

 

One of my favorite Tee-Shirts is the one that has a drawing of several land marks with the name of the city it is associated with beside it. It goes like this...

 

Big Ben .......... London

 

Eiffel Tower ......Paris

 

Water Tower .....Wilmore

with Cross

Really, you can't be certain? Surely you can.

To be honest, I don't know much about Liberty, other than what I have seen on BGP. I would be willing to guess that FFRF is basically an Athiest group, parading around pretending to "protect" us from "religion".

To be honest, I don't know much about Liberty, other than what I have seen on BGP. I would be willing to guess that FFRF is basically an Athiest group, parading around pretending to "protect" us from "religion".

 

My point is what difference does it make? It's all a bunch of agenda-driven crap, with all sides acting as though they are the most righteous of all. Wears me TFO.

My point is what difference does it make? It's all a bunch of agenda-driven crap, with all sides acting as though they are the most righteous of all. Wears me TFO.

Agreed.