Why do the public schools in NKY get along with their private school neighbors?

 

Maybe, it's because we ACTUALLY are neighbors. Within three houses to the right of mine and two houses to the left of mine, we had FIVE graduates.

 

Five graduates, five different high schools:

 

Calvary Christian

Dixie Heights

Scott

Newport Catholic

Covington Catholic

 

If I went up the street five more houses, we could include a Simon Kenton grad in this count. An even mix of public and private, 3-3. For academic meets/sporting events we all went our separate ways, but afterwards we all came home. No public disturbance calls in our neighborhood. Are we "best friends?" No, but I could count on them if I needed them.

 

At one time my street, which is four blocks in length had nine different high schools represented. The other three were Holmes, St. Henry, and Highlands.

I actually forgot to list Holy Cross and Covington Latin to the schools represented on my street. The kids that go to Latin moved...but Holy Cross is everpresent in this neighborhood.

 

Sorry to my HC friends.

Not so fast - I remember when Newport Catholic had to join the Greater Cincinnati League in the 60's due to not being able to schedule Nothern Kentucky teams, as in bladkballed (ouch). I am not convinced everything is hunky dory sp. in NKY. Incidentally Newport Catholic had some great teams when they participated in the GCL. their record just did not indicate that due to the toughness of schedule and the size of the schools they were playing.IE: Moeller Elder St X etc. I would venture to guess that NC would have a few more State Championships in their hip pocket.:confused:

Labs, you raise several good points. I was not aware that 50% of the kids in Ft. M go to private schools. Where did you get that stat from? Its rather surprising to me.

 

I do think there are some public schools that do not accept mediocrity. But I do not think it is the vast majority. You raise a good point about the effect of state testing and No Child Left Behind, but those are relatively recent "initiatives" and if you look at the results of those tests you will have to admit there are still lots of schools not doing well. But even if for argument sakes those initiatives are having a positive effect, as mentioned above, they are relatively recent initiatives. Its going to take a lot more than several years to build the level of community support that the privates schools do. Does Holmes have and actively promote an alumni association and work with the alumni association to make it a active group? Does Holmes have bingo and other fundraisers that brings the alumni and parents together on a regular basis? Does Holmes have regular meetings during sports like Elder has a Dad's Club for its football program (which is open to not only the dads but also other supporters of the program)? Does it really reach out to the community and alumni on regular basis? Those types of things occur at a private school and develop a cohesiveness for its supporters. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I know I just don't see those things happening at a lot of public schools and those things are what builds the tight knit support that the private schools have in my opinion.

 

As for Newport, I have acknowledged the declining enrollment. A large part of which is directly attributable to the past poor athletic and academic performance. Brandt is changing that. He acknowledges the difficulty of being an inner city school, but will not accept that as an excuse. One thing I would like to see him do is create the advanced studies program that Holmes has. I believe that without Holmes advanced studies program, Holmes would be in a lot worse shape and I credit the past administrators for having the foresight to start the program and Moreland credit for continuing it. It really is a top notch program.

 

Admittedly some of the problems that public schools face are forced upon them. I wish the legislators would get rid of this mentality that trouble makers and apathetic students must be kept in school. We've become the babysitters and parents of way too many kids. They get used to the public safety net and never learn self dependance. I heard on McConnell's radio show that we pay for 29 million breakfasts in the US each year. That's ridiculous. I understand the need for a good breakfast, but you cannot convince me that the parents of these kids cannot afford a couple of eggs and a piece of toast a day for their children, not when I see the parents wasting money on cigarettes, booze, etc.

 

We've allowed the poor to become dependant on us and have taken away the incentives for them to get out of the poor status. I'd cancel tbe breakfast programs and most of the welfare programs if "I was King". No doubt that for a period of time, crime would go up. But I'd take the money we pour into welfare programs and build more jails and I tell kids and parents that they either put for the required effort or they are going to end up in jail. Sooner, as opposed to later, they'd get the message. And even if they did not, the disruptive students would be out of the school system where they detract from those wanting to get a good education and the adults would be locked up and off the streets where some of them cause crimes and otherwise consume our society's resources.

 

Call me a fan of tough love if you will. Maybe I'm all wrong about the situation, but I do know this: the war against poverty has not worked and is not working. We have third generation of families in poverty and still dependent upon welfare. We have able bodied men standing on street corners when there are jobs that they are capable of performing going unfilled. We have ridiculous amounts of education programs available to the unskilled to become skilled that are not taken advantage of. But we make it easy for them to stay on street corners and collect welfare. We have young mothers unable to self provide for their existing children getting pregnant and we give them more welfare. And it may sound mean, but that's simply wrong.

 

Unfortunately, its our compassion that's holding these people in their current status of poor. And I understand the compassion and logic behind welfare programs. I often tell people that while I am a conservative I "understand" liberals. They are some of the most caring, compassionate people on the face of the earth. Its their qualities of love and compassion that causes them to support the liberal agenda of welfare. But I do feel that society can spoil the poor just like a parent can spoil a child. At some point, the poor must be told you must better yourself. We will not do it for you. And if you don't learn to support yourselves, you and your children will pay the consequences. It does not take a village to raise a child, its takes motivated and caring parents and we cannot make it easy for them to shuck their responsibilities onto society.

 

Sorry if I got off thread with my response.

 

I have a tough time dealing with handouts...I think that is part of the problem as well, but more so with adults than children.

 

If a public school is forced to take all comers that move into the district, then at least they can do all that they can to get them to come to school.

For example, Covington has over 60% of students that qualify for free and reduced lunch. I believe that would be a on a federal scale.

So you would expect a kid to come and if they can not afford the fschool food, they don't eat? So how will that child behave during the school day?

We penalize the kid because of the adult?

I do not have the actual numbers in front of me, but the number of kids who go to school in Covington that come from single parent homes is alaraming. Even scarier is the number of children, particularly minorities, that come from mothers who are no married.

It is the generational chain of inept of broken homes and families that must be attacked first. How does a school break that. It can't alone. It is the only thing that gives them structure for a day. A kid can come to school, get breakfast and lunch at the same time for 9 months of the year. IT is once they leave the campus where the structure breaks down. There is where the need for the local businesses and city leadership needs to step up and offer kids an alternative of running the streets. Give them ownership of something.

Building more jails will not cure the problem. They have begun cracking down on truants and educational neglect with parents, but that was with an initiative between the school and the courts.

I am for building some new jails to an extent, but it is the rehabilitation of these individuals that must be addressed, or we will have nothing but a revolving door.

THe city also has a vested interest with the schools. A solid school will attract people to move into their city. What has the city done to improve relations between the city and the schools? WHat business leaders have stepped up and formed partnerships with schools?

From my understanding, the only partner Holmes was able to come up with was Citi Group, based in Erlanger. There were no takers within the city.

 

There is an active alumni association.

 

As for bingo, I think that is illegal to have on public school grounds.

I cannot think of any booster groups that are active at the school, but I have not been around there to really investigate.

I will have to try and find you a link for the stats I was given regarding percetages of kids that go to priate schools.

We may need to move this conversation over to one of the other boards.

Interesting to say the least.

Not so fast - I remember when Newport Catholic had to join the Greater Cincinnati League in the 60's due to not being able to schedule Nothern Kentucky teams, as in bladkballed (ouch). I am not convinced everything is hunky dory sp. in NKY. Incidentally Newport Catholic had some great teams when they participated in the GCL. their record just did not indicate that due to the toughness of schedule and the size of the schools they were playing.IE: Moeller Elder St X etc. I would venture to guess that NC would have a few more State Championships in their hip pocket.:confused:

 

Blacks used to have to sit at the back of the bus, too.

 

How does something that occurred in 1960 deal with this particular question?

Not so fast - I remember when Newport Catholic had to join the Greater Cincinnati League in the 60's due to not being able to schedule Nothern Kentucky teams, as in bladkballed (ouch). I am not convinced everything is hunky dory sp. in NKY. Incidentally Newport Catholic had some great teams when they participated in the GCL. their record just did not indicate that due to the toughness of schedule and the size of the schools they were playing.IE: Moeller Elder St X etc. I would venture to guess that NC would have a few more State Championships in their hip pocket.:confused:

Then I'm sure you remember the recruiting scandals as well.....

 

That was a different time and place. I think NKY gets along just fine. We like rivalries, but most of us realize it's just a game and don't begrudge another for having success. If the things that happened then were happening now, yes we would have issue in NKY, but there not so why bring up an era from over 30 years ago that is not even remotely close to the era we are in now.

I do remember, and yes this is a different time. I also think that the Louisville situation and the NKY situation are different. 4A in NKY does not have any privates competing. 3A has Covcath which has not exactly owned the playoffs in their class. 1A has Newcath which has not exactly owned the playoffs in class A. If NKY had 2 dominant private schools in 4A winning their district and representing NKY every year I am sure their would be a lot of whining.Do NKY teams get along? yes, but if their was a dominant private school winning every year, I am not so sure we would IMO.

I do remember, and yes this is a different time. I also think that the Louisville situation and the NKY situation are different. 4A in NKY does not have any privates competing. 3A has Covcath which has not exactly owned the playoffs in their class. 1A has Newcath which has not exactly owned the playoffs in class A. If NKY had 2 dominant private schools in 4A winning their district and representing NKY every year I am sure their would be a lot of whining.Do NKY teams get along? yes, but if their was a dominant private school winning every year, I am not so sure we would IMO.

OK, but we don't. Not long ago, most of us were in 3A with HHS and CCH, and although we marked our calendars and hooted and hollered, most of us looked forward to the challenge. Ryle and Dixie both loved competeing in 3A, and I'm not sure that if your trying to make a point you can do it in that shadow. After all, HHS has owned 3A as far as titles go.

After all, HHS has owned 3A as far as titles go.

And there is no doubt that have "Private School"esque resentment across NKY...

And there is no doubt that have "Private School"esque resentment across NKY...

Agreed.

And there is no doubt that have "Private School"esque resentment across NKY...

There a school you love to hate, and they have given quite a few people ample reason to do so. But underneath that, we all respect Highlands. They have a great school and football team. You can find people who dislike another school just as vehemently anywhere if you look for them. Scott and Simon Kenton, Conner and Boone, Dixie and Ryle, Belleview and Dayton...and so on. To say that resentment is only directed towards CCH and HHS is just plain crazy.

To say that resentment is only directed towards CCH and HHS is just plain crazy.

I said nothing about CCH. But they also don't need to use toes to count football titles. Go to the Classic Forum and revisit the Mitchell and Nevels mess for how more than a few in NKY feel about HHS.....

I am curious about Ryle's formation. They were coming online (so to speak) about the time we (Ashland) were being moved to 3A and matched up with the mountains. I heard comments that Ryle would cut into Boone and would become the new power. Boone may have dropped but Ryle has never peaked that I recall?? I'm not even aware of their class size history. Any thoughts on that point and/or if their are any new schools or consolidations forcasted due to growth or population changes??

 

Thanx, Woody Jr

 

If you really look at it, Ryle HAS cut into Boone. Look at Boone Co.'s records and successes in the years prior to Ryle's formation. Pretty impressive stuff, including 2 trips to the state finals and some COMPETITIVE games against T, X, etc. Now look at the results since Ryle has been formed, lots of playoff blowouts, early exits, some mediocre seasons. Not all of this can be attributed to the formation of Ryle, but it certainly isn't a coincidence either. IMO, Ryle was on the verge of peaking right before their move to 4A. The were competing and beating the Highlands, CovCaths, etc. of the world in their class. This was right around 1998 if I remember correctly. Ryle was able to jump in and compete with these teams in 3A because they were comparable(size wise) to those schools. Jump forward to current 4A. Ryle HAS competed, at times, with the large 4A schools, but it has been sporadic at best. As the numbers, if they ever get there, grow closer together, I'd look for much better competition between Ryle and the "Big 3".

 

That being said, don't look for it anytime soon. In fact, look for the opposite. It looks like another school is on the way in NKY, which will only serve to further reduce the numbers, and thus the talent pool. I do believe the school is scheduled to open in 2009. IMO, its simple math. T, X, etc. NEED to attract more students to fund their ever growing costs, and will continue to do so. More grads equal more alumni, which equals more money. So why wouldn't they continue to expand? NKY has the opposite approach IMO. Smaller classes, more 1 on 1 instruction, these seem to be the goals of at least the Boone Co. Board of Ed. I read a mention of Trinity's campus being modeled after a college campus. This doesn't suprise me one bit. In fact, if we were to compare the schools, I'd say Trinity is closer to the "state" universities, while the schools in NKY are modeled after the small colleges. Like many students who consider multiple factors when choosing a college, there are benefits and drawbacks to each type. I will say this in closing: There is a reason that the best colleges in the nation have a cap on enrollment.

If you really look at it, Ryle HAS cut into Boone. Look at Boone Co.'s records and successes in the years prior to Ryle's formation. Pretty impressive stuff, including 2 trips to the state finals and some COMPETITIVE games against T, X, etc. Now look at the results since Ryle has been formed, lots of playoff blowouts, early exits, some mediocre seasons. Not all of this can be attributed to the formation of Ryle, but it certainly isn't a coincidence either. IMO, Ryle was on the verge of peaking right before their move to 4A. The were competing and beating the Highlands, CovCaths, etc. of the world in their class. This was right around 1998 if I remember correctly. Ryle was able to jump in and compete with these teams in 3A because they were comparable(size wise) to those schools. Jump forward to current 4A. Ryle HAS competed, at times, with the large 4A schools, but it has been sporadic at best. As the numbers, if they ever get there, grow closer together, I'd look for much better competition between Ryle and the "Big 3".

 

That being said, don't look for it anytime soon. In fact, look for the opposite. It looks like another school is on the way in NKY, which will only serve to further reduce the numbers, and thus the talent pool. I do believe the school is scheduled to open in 2009. IMO, its simple math. T, X, etc. NEED to attract more students to fund their ever growing costs, and will continue to do so. More grads equal more alumni, which equals more money. So why wouldn't they continue to expand? NKY has the opposite approach IMO. Smaller classes, more 1 on 1 instruction, these seem to be the goals of at least the Boone Co. Board of Ed. I read a mention of Trinity's campus being modeled after a college campus. This doesn't suprise me one bit. In fact, if we were to compare the schools, I'd say Trinity is closer to the "state" universities, while the schools in NKY are modeled after the small colleges. Like many students who consider multiple factors when choosing a college, there are benefits and drawbacks to each type. I will say this in closing: There is a reason that the best colleges in the nation have a cap on enrollment.

 

 

Fantastic synopsis on some things I had been curious about.

 

I believe it's reasonable to say T and X have it to themselves in "marketing" their choice of school setting to students in the Lou area. I'm not aware of any new schools that have been built/opened in Lou in some time - surely could have been one but Im just not aware of it or that it has been a significant factor in the overall makeup of Lou education. Im curious whether Lou has just NOT grown (population &/or student wise) or/and if present schools have had substantial enlargements (facilites &/or student wise) ?

Your points about T/X expanding in a campus model are well related to this question as they do indeed have to work to insure their future stability and good standing educationally (its a reciprocal thing)

 

In Lex you had a huge Dunbar school open to fill a need in that expanding area of Lex(allegedly) and that seems to have coincided with a dropoff in many other schools (athletic success wise). Then you have had Lex Cath and Lex Christian open and/or grow greatly - these can only serve to siphon off students from all the other area schools it seems to me. Unless growth patterns shift again in Lex it would seem to me that those 2 privates are poised to duplicate T and X's path in Lou. They will want to grow simply in an effort to maintain their stability and provide for continued education excellence IMO. That will very possibly lead to a mirroring situation with Lou one would think.

 

No KY seems to have more in common with the rest of the state of Kentucky with their mixture of all different size & type schools. HHS may be considered close to a private type by some, CCH is not overwhelming #'s wise maybe due to other catholic schools of a different class size(unlike T/X's mega competition), and also it seems that NO ONE is the primary focus of school "choice" by all the students in the area(unlike say T/X in Lou or LC/LC in Lex). Perhaps the historical and naturally occuring smaller communities/cities serve to support the idea of smaller school settings & also help to insulate the schools from decline?

It will be interesting to see the effect of another new school in NKY and whether it just handles new student growth, takes away from other schools - & possibly causes a decline in them, and/or triggers a more competitive situation between schools for students.

 

Thanx again for your NON homering information

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

If you really look at it, Ryle HAS cut into Boone. Look at Boone Co.'s records and successes in the years prior to Ryle's formation. Pretty impressive stuff, including 2 trips to the state finals and some COMPETITIVE games against T, X, etc. Now look at the results since Ryle has been formed, lots of playoff blowouts, early exits, some mediocre seasons. Not all of this can be attributed to the formation of Ryle, but it certainly isn't a coincidence either. IMO, Ryle was on the verge of peaking right before their move to 4A. The were competing and beating the Highlands, CovCaths, etc. of the world in their class. This was right around 1998 if I remember correctly. Ryle was able to jump in and compete with these teams in 3A because they were comparable(size wise) to those schools. Jump forward to current 4A. Ryle HAS competed, at times, with the large 4A schools, but it has been sporadic at best. As the numbers, if they ever get there, grow closer together, I'd look for much better competition between Ryle and the "Big 3".

 

That being said, don't look for it anytime soon. In fact, look for the opposite. It looks like another school is on the way in NKY, which will only serve to further reduce the numbers, and thus the talent pool. I do believe the school is scheduled to open in 2009. IMO, its simple math. T, X, etc. NEED to attract more students to fund their ever growing costs, and will continue to do so. More grads equal more alumni, which equals more money. So why wouldn't they continue to expand? NKY has the opposite approach IMO. Smaller classes, more 1 on 1 instruction, these seem to be the goals of at least the Boone Co. Board of Ed. I read a mention of Trinity's campus being modeled after a college campus. This doesn't suprise me one bit. In fact, if we were to compare the schools, I'd say Trinity is closer to the "state" universities, while the schools in NKY are modeled after the small colleges. Like many students who consider multiple factors when choosing a college, there are benefits and drawbacks to each type. I will say this in closing: There is a reason that the best colleges in the nation have a cap on enrollment.

 

I see, so you are questioning the commitment to academic excellence at Trinity and St.x becuase we don't bud and split as schools in NKY do? Don't take this the wrong way, but are you seriously questioning our academic commitments to excellence? Our track record speaks for itself. Of course we do not HAVE to take the special needs, the EBD, the ESL, the IEPs that the public schools do but mainstreaming was not something that is mandatory. That is the prevailing educational philosophy in the state of Kentucky at the moment.

 

That my friend was a cheap shot that is wholly unfounded with conjecture and hearsay. Needless to say I am offended that you would even say such a thing about ANY school. In this case I take considerable umbrage at the fact that you dare insinuate that my alma mater is not committed to the best possible education of our students.