I'm not so sure the level of animosity seen in Lexington and Louisville is that far away from occuring in NKY. I have good friends that went to Dixie, Belleview, and Ludlow who claim CovCath recruits without blinking an eye. And they believe this without question. I don't bring up high school sports with them because they dismiss CovCath success with a "they recruit" comment and whenever CovCath loses it was because of "poor recruiting", not solid playing/coaching on behalf of the other team. If CovCath/NewCath attain just a bit more success than they enjoy now, the cry of level the playing field could grow very loud in NKY.

The kids aren't the problem in Lexington or Louisville. It's the adults...

I have to agree with GT on this one. Adults usually do screw up kids' games. This is not the only time that has happened.

 

For RM and LN, excellent posts.

 

I do have to make a comment on part of LN's post. LN says,

 

Thus most public schools have no necessity to be great academically and athletically to survive. They can accept mediocrity and be just fine.

 

I would point out that private schools do not deal with all the issues and problems that public schools have to deal with. Admitted on here was that a lot of resource students and the issues that teachers focus on with them are not a problem with private schools. Admitted on here was that private schools do have to educate the students that are forced into the school system by the courts. Admitted on here was that there are problem children and the problems come from not nary a thing that the public school has done or has control of, BUT the public school still is responsible for educating those children.

 

AND THEY SHOULD BE.

 

Within the last year and I have no clue how to even search for the article, there was a story that showed research that took kids from similar homes and environments. One attended public schools, one attended private schools. Their academic success of SIMILAR students were very close.

 

So when LN says mediocrity, I would question what LN means by that. Mediocrity for a AP student to not learn, NO THAT IS NOT ACCEPTED. For a kid to come to the HS after being home schooled and/or in jail for the past 3-4 years and reading on a 2nd grade level and getting that reading level up to somewhere in the middle school level in one year, if that is mediocre, so be it.

 

Let me add, It is essential for our society that we have BOTH great private and public school systems.

Only based upon my conversations with the NKY public school coaches I have battled with on the basketball courts over the past 10 years, I would say that the public school coaches do not "get along" as well as the NKY private schools let on. It seems the NKY private schools like to promote this hunkydory feeling among all of the schools in NKY that is not accurate.

 

As far as Highlands and Beechwood, most people I know consider them to be as close to private schools as you can get without being private schools.

 

I would be curious, of what schools do you speak of? Dixie, and any other Kenton County School has a open door policy. Boone Co, don't think so, as Coach Listerman son was the head coach there not so long ago and they loved him. Ryle, don't think so either, as they hold their own and then some against everybody. Now who do I think? Lloyd, Ludlow, but those two are no different than BW or HHS....Connor, Newport, maybe, Holmes no way....So who does that leave....... Simon Kenton, Scott Walton Vernoa and Campbell County aren't' even in the 9th anymore. Who then, and if you aren't willing to say who, then you should have never brought it up........

 

Look I go to a lot of games, as I enjoy high school sports. My child doesn't play high schools sports, so I go just to watch good games. Yes I like NDA and CovCath, but since I coached for quite a few years, I know a lot of kids who play sports for a lot of different schools. I have fun watching them and still keep in contact with a lot of their parents, and while they all love to beat NDA and CovCath, they don't hate them either.

While we might not sit with each other during the game, after the game or even prior to the game, we have fun together, and why not. I have know some of these parents for close to twenty years some even longer. Just because their child and mine go to different schools doesn't mean we can't be friends, competitors true but friends first and I hope forever.

 

RRR, as much as you say the things you say about private schools dragging public school coaches' names through the mud, have you not read the posts on here attacking Manual as school that robs the other schools of the best academics? It's the same premise. No one wants anyone else to be more successful than they. Everyone believes in equality, but apparently, that must be attained at the price of sacrificing quality.

 

Now, for the platitudes:

 

Success never final.

Success is a journey, not a destination.

 

So, for what it's worth, as much as I appreciate and admire public schools, I refuse to be shamed into any sort of lessened pride in private schools in any capacity. I feel we've worked hard for, and earned, everything we've attained.

 

Rockmom,

The intent of my post was to enlighten those who are seeing one side of the issue. Specifically I was responding to the term "assualt" on the private schools. Actually I don't disagree with the private side at all, and to be a homer on the issue, I completely agree with you that Manual will ultimately find themselves in the same boat, because thier situation is not that different.

 

I disagree that there is not us vs them mentality, I've been around both side enough feel comfortable with that feeling. I certianly don't feel that this is portrayed by EVERYONE, my post spefically related to an element within the community, not administration, not majority but rather an element.

 

While that element may not deserve the right to speak for the private community, it is what is being most heard. Same can be said for those presenting the public side, however the BIG difference is that those in the public side are officals and administration.

 

This further typifies what is one of the biggest differences between the publics and the privates, that the community of the private schools are the real power behind thier success. The coaches and administration don't recruit players, the community does. The coaches and administration don't throw dirt at the other staffs, parts of the community do. The school doesn't pull out of pocket for the nicest equipment, uniforms, and facilities, the community does. So what I'm saying is that all of the problems that public people have with the private schools are driven speficially by the community and not the administration. This is COMPLETELY LEGAL, and in my personal opinion OK.

 

Where I do believe that some argument can be made for the public schools, especially those in an suburban environment like Louisville where open enrollment exist, is that it is unrealistic to expect the public schools to create and build the same level of community that the private schools have. This is for a variety of reasons for this, diverse economic situation, lack of religious connection, overall lack of community in our communities etc etc etc. Therefore if the "private advantage", aka Community, can not be duplicated than there is reason to suggest these schools are on a different level and should be separated, in the same manner that we separate by class. While I agree that the privates are on a different level, I DISAGREE WITH THE ACTION OF SEPARATION.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, I agree that you should never feel shame for accomplishment, if my post specifically created that feeling it was untended. I have great respect for the private program and the community of which created those programs. But on the same token, I don't think this argument, on this board, has highlighted both sides equally, and in more than a few instances public supporters have been told to be ashamed of thier schools, there coaches, and thier allegiances, and therefore feel defensive.

Rockmom,

The intent of my post was to enlighten those who are seeing one side of the issue. Specifically I was responding to the term "assualt" on the private schools. Actually I don't disagree with the private side at all, and to be a homer on the issue, I completely agree with you that Manual will ultimately find themselves in the same boat, because thier situation is not that different.

 

I disagree that there is not us vs them mentality, I've been around both side enough feel comfortable with that feeling. I certianly don't feel that this is portrayed by EVERYONE, my post spefically related to an element within the community, not administration, not majority but rather an element.

 

While that element may not deserve the right to speak for the private community, it is what is being most heard. Same can be said for those presenting the public side, however the BIG difference is that those in the public side are officals and administration.

 

This further typifies what is one of the biggest differences between the publics and the privates, that the community of the private schools are the real power behind thier success. The coaches and administration don't recruit players, the community does. The coaches and administration don't throw dirt at the other staffs, parts of the community do. The school doesn't pull out of pocket for the nicest equipment, uniforms, and facilities, the community does. So what I'm saying is that all of the problems that public people have with the private schools are driven speficially by the community and not the administration. This is COMPLETELY LEGAL, and in my personal opinion OK.

 

Where I do believe that some argument can be made for the public schools, especially those in an suburban environment like Louisville where open enrollment exist, is that it is unrealistic to expect the public schools to create and build the same level of community that the private schools have. This is for a variety of reasons for this, diverse economic situation, lack of religious connection, overall lack of community in our communities etc etc etc. Therefore if the "private advantage", aka Community, can not be duplicated than there is reason to suggest these schools are on a different level and should be separated, in the same manner that we separate by class. While I agree that the privates are on a different level, I DISAGREE WITH THE ACTION OF SEPARATION.

 

Regarding your last paragraph, I agree that you should never feel shame for accomplishment, if my post specifically created that feeling it was untended. I have great respect for the private program and the community of which created those programs. But on the same token, I don't think this argument, on this board, has highlighted both sides equally, and in more than a few instances public supporters have been told to be ashamed of thier schools, there coaches, and thier allegiances, and therefore feel defensive.

 

I can agree with what you say. I'm sorry if it seemed my entire post was directed at you specifically. It really wasn't. Literally, only the part about Manual was directed specifically at you.

 

I would like to futher state (to clarify) that the "us against them" mentality does exist. But honestly, I feel that the private side was much less pronounced until the whole push for Prop 20. The way that all came to be, and the things that were said by some (apparently) very well-respected members representing the public school side of the debate rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. There were some not so indirect implications that were completely erroneous, and they've fuled a lot more opinions, when no proof exists.

 

As I said, I think that public schools have come a long way in the last 30 years. The points that leatherneck made are true as well. When I hear complaints about school sports, that's the first thing I think of...the level of committment to girls sports that the private schools have made for as long as I can remember.

 

Ladiesbballcoach also makes good points about what the private schools face. But, to be honest, none of the limitations on public schools are the fault or caused by, the private schools. They are the result of legislation, and local decision making. In some ways, the decisions made by the state and local decision makers more than 3 decades ago are the reason that private schools became as popular as they are today. Relative to the Catholic schools specifically, in Louisville, you can find a Catholic grade school in just about every community. Yes, we are consolidating some, but the steps are being made to preserve Catholic education. I read recently that De Sales and Holy Cross now each have their own Presidents. That's a huge committment for those small schools. But it shows the lengths that the Catholic schools will go to, in order to continue to offer Catholic High school choices in their communities.

The kids aren't the problem in Lexington or Louisville. It's the adults...

Those adults were once kids. Pre-existing relationships between schools of either private or public demanor has alot to do with how things are ran in NKY.

I would be curious, of what schools do you speak of? Dixie, and any other Kenton County School has a open door policy. Boone Co, don't think so, as Coach Listerman son was the head coach there not so long ago and they loved him. Ryle, don't think so either, as they hold their own and then some against everybody. Now who do I think? Lloyd, Ludlow, but those two are no different than BW or HHS....Connor, Newport, maybe, Holmes no way....So who does that leave....... Simon Kenton, Scott Walton Vernoa and Campbell County aren't' even in the 9th anymore. Who then, and if you aren't willing to say who, then you should have never brought it up........

 

Look I go to a lot of games, as I enjoy high school sports. My child doesn't play high schools sports, so I go just to watch good games. Yes I like NDA and CovCath, but since I coached for quite a few years, I know a lot of kids who play sports for a lot of different schools. I have fun watching them and still keep in contact with a lot of their parents, and while they all love to beat NDA and CovCath, they don't hate them either.

While we might not sit with each other during the game, after the game or even prior to the game, we have fun together, and why not. I have know some of these parents for close to twenty years some even longer. Just because their child and mine go to different schools doesn't mean we can't be friends, competitors true but friends first and I hope forever.

I could be mistaken but the thread was about NKY coaches and not 9th region coaches. Some of the schools you mentioned are ones that the coaches or former coaches (within the past 2-3 years) that are not as buddy-buddy with the private schools as being portrayed. Some of the smaller independent schools that has seen their talent move onto a private school after having started varisty as middle schoolers, while understanding that is the player's choice, do not feel as great about the private schools as is being let on around the state.

 

Plus, comments made in public and around the dinner table in Bowling Green are not always the same comments.

I could be mistaken but the thread was about NKY coaches and not 9th region coaches. Some of the schools you mentioned are ones that the coaches or former coaches (within the past 2-3 years) that are not as buddy-buddy with the private schools as being portrayed. Some of the smaller independent schools that has seen their talent move onto a private school after having started varisty as middle schoolers, while understanding that is the player's choice, do not feel as great about the private schools as is being let on around the state.

 

Plus, comments made in public and around the dinner table in Bowling Green are not always the same comments.

The smaller independents your are speaking Ludlow and Bellvue have a negative feeling that is unjust, just because some of the kids who started off in either their feeder systems or high school wanted to move on to a better oppurtunity. You can't mistake that with private school recruiting.

 

The only schools you hear negative grips from, are usually school systems that have no one to blame but themselves for problems they are having in NKY.

The thread is titled "why do the public schools in NKY get along with their private school neighbors." It seems to me that this premise is true. I base this on reviewing primarily football posts on BGP in the past. My speculation is a bit different than many posts thus far. Over time I have been struck by the different tone and ideological underpinning of many of the NKY posters, as opposed to posts from other areas of the state. In general, those NKY posters are not as irrationally strident as many other posters (and many of those irrationally strident posters, I am chagrined to report, seem to be from Louisville). Ideologically, it seems that many NKY posters, when facing adversity, look to themselves to fix the problem rather than complain about how others put them in whatever dilemma they may be in. To me, they seem to have a strong streak of individualism and voice more of a "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" attitude. BTW, this may the attitude to have-look at the success of their schools academically and athletically. At any rate, focusing on improving your own shortcomings as opposed to obsessing on other’s successes, leaves less room for rancor, IMHO.

RRR, I respectfully disagree with the part of your post when you say the its unrealistic for the public schools to develop the same type of community that the private schools have. I think there are public schools that have that same level of community support that the privates do. Boyle, Danville, Belfry, Mayfield, Beechwood and Highlands come quickly to mind.

 

But as the private schools know, it takes decades of work to develop it. It takes more than than just the current parents of players working hard to develop it. It takes years and a lot of effort to develop the association that supporters feel for a school and its athletic programs. Honestly I don't feel a lot of public schools have had that type of support or committment. But I know it can be done, because it has been done at various public schools in the state. But it takes a lot of work, by a lot more people than just the parents of the players (and I'm not just talking about the 5-10 people that seem to volunteer for all the school related activities). And it takes a school administration that wants do work hard to develop that support, that community feel. As I stated in another thread, the private schools have done it because they had to do it to stay open. It wasn't a luxury for them, it was an absolute necessity. Most public schools have never worried about the need to do it because they got their funds from the state coffers and the need to have that tight community support just was not needed. And because it wasn't needed, it wasn't done. But it can be done if people at the public schools really want to make it happen.

I have to agree with GT on this one. Adults usually do screw up kids' games. This is not the only time that has happened.

 

For RM and LN, excellent posts.

 

I do have to make a comment on part of LN's post. LN says,

 

Thus most public schools have no necessity to be great academically and athletically to survive. They can accept mediocrity and be just fine.

 

I would point out that private schools do not deal with all the issues and problems that public schools have to deal with. Admitted on here was that a lot of resource students and the issues that teachers focus on with them are not a problem with private schools. Admitted on here was that private schools do have to educate the students that are forced into the school system by the courts. Admitted on here was that there are problem children and the problems come from not nary a thing that the public school has done or has control of, BUT the public school still is responsible for educating those children.

 

AND THEY SHOULD BE.

 

Within the last year and I have no clue how to even search for the article, there was a story that showed research that took kids from similar homes and environments. One attended public schools, one attended private schools. Their academic success of SIMILAR students were very close.

 

So when LN says mediocrity, I would question what LN means by that. Mediocrity for a AP student to not learn, NO THAT IS NOT ACCEPTED. For a kid to come to the HS after being home schooled and/or in jail for the past 3-4 years and reading on a 2nd grade level and getting that reading level up to somewhere in the middle school level in one year, if that is mediocre, so be it.

 

Let me add, It is essential for our society that we have BOTH great private and public school systems.

 

 

I would guess that Beechwood has more students forced on them by the courts than just about any school in the state,percentages wise at least.

Because of the orphage and youth home, a lot of kids are also under court appointed gaurdingships.But they still maintain a high level of achievement.Yes,the public system is responsible for educating the

problem students but not necessarily at school in the traditional sense, but at everyones expense.

 

I currently have one student attending a public high school and one attending a private high school

in NKY. The resources available to the public is much greater than those offered at the private.

But at the publics they are not taken advantage of on a large scale. I believe the parents

make the difference by either their involvment, or better yet their lack of.It certainly is an uphill

fight for some public schools to get the community involvement that's needed for the

school and the students to achieve at a high level.But it also needs saying that strong

leadership must come from administraters to not accept mediocrity at anything sports,

academics or behavioral.Unfortunately this is usally not the case to often the ball

gets dropped or passed on down the line to avoid conflict or situations.I am still happy

about the decisions we made about our 2 kids and would do it the same way again.

 

It still almost always comes down to involvment and expectations from all.

I know that Notre Dames gbb coach was a former assistant at Boone.

So,I guess that helps that relationship between the 2.They also

co-host a Christmas girls basketball tourney each year.I dont

think there are to many public/private co-hosted tournaments

in the state ,if any.I believe that is quite unique.

Do the Private schools up north enjoy the same advantage of having so many more kids than the publics?

 

Actually we all get along pretty well down hear in the Ville! Its not so much public vs privates down hear as it is us vs them, them being X and T, us being everyone else (public and private).

 

I dont hear complaints in Louisville about private schools in general as much as I do about the disparity in size of the largest private schools. The big 2 boys schools "T" & "X" just have a distinct advantage because of the larger number of students to chose from to make up a team. I know and admire many within the programs at these two schools. They have some excellent coaches and even if they had similar numbers as the publics they might still win. But it would be alot easier to take if the numbers were more in line. I think it would benefit all of high school athletics if that advantage didnt exist. I've even heard some of the X and T faithful admit they wish it were more balanced so it seemed more fair.

That's a great post Rockmom.

 

Personally, I believe that the difference in levels of "success" both athletically and academically between private schools and public schools is caused by nothing other than necessity. It is absolutely necessary for private schools to excel at athletics and academics if their administrators want to have a job next year. Without successful athletics and academics, parents stop wanting to send their kids to a school that in almost every case requires the parents to pay more money than it would cost to send their kids to the local public school. As you suggested, the administrators much be able to show the parents a return on the investment of sending their kids to a private school. Furthermore success both academically and athletically generates pride in the school. That pride is absolutely essential when conducting critically vital endowment campaigns. Without the tuition paying students and without the endowment pledges, the private school is out of business and the administrators are soon out looking for work. Thus it is an absolute necessity that the private schools be successful.

 

 

Public schools, or at least a clear majority of them, labor under no such pressures. They, in many case, are the only school in the county. 95% or more of the students in their schools are going to attend those schools regardless of whether the respective school sends a small percentage of students to college, regardless of whether they fail to have national merit finalists year in and year out, regardless of whether they regularly test poorly on the CATS test, and regardless of whether they do poorly athletically. That is of course, unless there is a private school nearby or another public school nearby that performs higher in those activities. Furthermore, most public schools count heavily on state funding, not private contributions, to remain open. Thus most public schools have no necessity to be great academically and athletically to survive. They can accept mediocrity and be just fine.

 

Admittedly some public schools have finally awakened to the challenges presented to them by the private schools and the other public schools taking students from them. Newport is a perfect example of this. Their superintendent, Dr. Brandt, is absolutely livid that some kids who formerly lived in Newport have moved to Ft. Thomas because of the academics and athletics and his heck bent to improve both aspects of the school system to stop parents in Newport from moving out of town to provide their students with better academic and athletic opportunities. Hiring Schlarman was not by chance. It would not surprise me one bit that if Schlarman stays there and Brandt is successful in improving the academics at Newport, such exodus stops in the future. But Newport, like the other public schools who now realize that mediocrity is not getting it done, is decades behind the private schools and the public schools that have not accepted mediocrity for years. To think that Newport or any other school is going to catch up in a few years is simply wishful thinking in most cases. They may have successful teams and gifted students in some years, but it will be awhile before they enjoy the level of success they had last year, year in and year out. But certainly having the right level of committment from the administration, the coaches, the players, the parents and the community can accelerate the process.

 

Some smaller public schools do face the same challenge the private schools face however. Those that do succeed academically and athletically do stay open and are not forced to merge (Beechwood and Highlands for example in N. Ky.). Those that do not succeed, but rather are mediocre or worse, are forced to merge into the larger county public schools. Brandt saw what was happening, saw the enrollment at Newport continue to shrink in an alarming manner and decided to take drastic action. I hope he is successful.

 

LBBC, you are definitely right that Highlands and Beechwood are more like private schools than large county public schools. But they have to be that way out of necessity. When the state funding formula penalizes you and you need to raise 2.4 million dollars privately to provide the funds that the state fails to provide in order to do desperately needed renovation to the high school, the people that you ask for the money must believe that the high school is definitely "getting it done" academically; they must have the level of pride in their school that successful athletics helps generate. Otherwise, they don't give the money. And if the school is just mediocre in what it does, its not getting it done and the level of pride is just not there. Without that type of support, without that level of pride, without a high rate of success, parents in Ft. Thomas start looking elsewhere to send their kids, just like the parents in Newport looked elsewhere, the result being enrollment at Highlands drops. Which results in even less state funding for Highlands and less private contributions, and then its a matter of time before Highlands ends up going the route that Harrodsburg just went. So you are right in that Beechwood and Highlands are more like private schools because they understand the necessity of being a top notch school academically and athletically. They have no choice but to be extremely successful academically and athletically. To accept less would to mean eventual closure. The county high schools in Pendleton County, Boone County, Campbell County, etc have had no such necessity and thus they have acted much differently than the private schools.

 

Another diatribe finished. LN

 

Understood.

 

To say that the public school accepts mediocrity is horse hockey. That they are under no pressure to perform...

State testing, No Child Left Behind...on down the line. I would imagine the pressure on public school teachers and administrators are a bit more than you realize.

There is no selection/testing process in regards to who can get into a public school. The testing scores are a bit skewed. Special Education students are tested on their grade level and their scores are lumped in within the entire school. Students in alternative programs, such as ones who have been kicked out for discipline measures on the cusp of expulsion, and are enrolled in these programs are tested on grade level, and thier scores are lumped into the school's total score.

Many inner city schools are swimming upstream with testing.

 

Newport's problem is associated with the declining population over the last 20 years. Those that could leave, have left, the families that populated Newport in the 60's and 70's have reared their children and they have flown the coop. As the parents of those who lived there and passed on, the house was probably rented out or sold to someone at a lower price, because the relatives who once lived there were not going to return. Newport's population has steadily declined, leaving those individuals who do not have the means to leave, have stayed.

Newport deals with many of the same type kids Holmes has. Transient families..moving multiple times across the Licking River.

How can you grasp that and stop that? That is the chore. Both cities are trying to restructure the section 8 housing...razing the projects and relocating families into neighborhoods as a means to break the generational history of growing up in government housing.

 

Is there any high school in the state with maybe the exception of Paducah Tilghman that has three projects that feed one high school?

 

Do private schools take large populations of students who live in projects?

Not trying to disparage those that live there, but it is a factor in the total equation. It is far too easy to lay the ills of society at the feet of the public school.

 

Success in private schools can be located at the involvement of the parent or appropriate adult. Money is also a factor.

For example, roughly 25% of Covington kids attend private schools. You move a few miles to the south and you see a city like Ft. Mitchell, which is rather affluent, especially compared to Covington. 50% of Ft. Mitchell sends their kids to private schools.

Why is that?

You cannot say it is because parents do not want to send their kids to a public school, because Beechwood is the home public school of Ft. Mitchell.

Much of it deals with money.

As for pride, one has to care about something to have pride in it.

The schools have tried everything in their power to push for school pride and what not. However, much of their populations do not take ownership in it. Why? My theory is that you must own something to value something. If you purchase something, you will take care of it. You will respect other people's rights and property. If you do not own something like a house, or you have been given something you will not respect it as much as if you purchased it.

For example, my parents paid my way to college. I screwed around my first year. The following year, I had to foot the bill and it wasn't pleasant. After I got straightened out, they paid for my tuition and what not, but it was a lesson well learned.

People need to take ownership. That begins in the society itself. That begins with the city government, the courts, the business community and so forth. But far too often the blame lies at the feet of the school.

 

We could go on and on about this...

 

As for the original topic, I don't see much ill-will beteen privates and publics in NKY. My opinion is that their are numerous private schools in the NKY area and on various levels. None have become too dominant, other than Cov Cath, but year in and year out their is usually a public school to counter them at each classification. Cov Cath is fairly dominant and it only has an enrollment of roughly 500+ kids. That is what, 1/4 the size of X and Trinity?

There is a population disparity between NKY and Jeff County. As for Lexington, you have LC casting a wide net. In NKY the net is significantly smaller.

Understood.

 

To say that the public school accepts mediocrity is horse hockey. That they are under no pressure to perform...

State testing, No Child Left Behind...on down the line. I would imagine the pressure on public school teachers and administrators are a bit more than you realize.

There is no selection/testing process in regards to who can get into a public school. The testing scores are a bit skewed. Special Education students are tested on their grade level and their scores are lumped in within the entire school. Students in alternative programs, such as ones who have been kicked out for discipline measures on the cusp of expulsion, and are enrolled in these programs are tested on grade level, and thier scores are lumped into the school's total score.

Many inner city schools are swimming upstream with testing.

 

Newport's problem is associated with the declining population over the last 20 years. Those that could leave, have left, the families that populated Newport in the 60's and 70's have reared their children and they have flown the coop. As the parents of those who lived there and passed on, the house was probably rented out or sold to someone at a lower price, because the relatives who once lived there were not going to return. Newport's population has steadily declined, leaving those individuals who do not have the means to leave, have stayed.

Newport deals with many of the same type kids Holmes has. Transient families..moving multiple times across the Licking River.

How can you grasp that and stop that? That is the chore. Both cities are trying to restructure the section 8 housing...razing the projects and relocating families into neighborhoods as a means to break the generational history of growing up in government housing.

 

Is there any high school in the state with maybe the exception of Paducah Tilghman that has three projects that feed one high school?

 

Do private schools take large populations of students who live in projects?

Not trying to disparage those that live there, but it is a factor in the total equation. It is far too easy to lay the ills of society at the feet of the public school.

 

Success in private schools can be located at the involvement of the parent or appropriate adult. Money is also a factor.

For example, roughly 25% of Covington kids attend private schools. You move a few miles to the south and you see a city like Ft. Mitchell, which is rather affluent, especially compared to Covington. 50% of Ft. Mitchell sends their kids to private schools.

Why is that?

You cannot say it is because parents do not want to send their kids to a public school, because Beechwood is the home public school of Ft. Mitchell.

Much of it deals with money.

As for pride, one has to care about something to have pride in it.

The schools have tried everything in their power to push for school pride and what not. However, much of their populations do not take ownership in it. Why? My theory is that you must own something to value something. If you purchase something, you will take care of it. You will respect other people's rights and property. If you do not own something like a house, or you have been given something you will not respect it as much as if you purchased it.

For example, my parents paid my way to college. I screwed around my first year. The following year, I had to foot the bill and it wasn't pleasant. After I got straightened out, they paid for my tuition and what not, but it was a lesson well learned.

People need to take ownership. That begins in the society itself. That begins with the city government, the courts, the business community and so forth. But far too often the blame lies at the feet of the school.

 

We could go on and on about this...

 

As for the original topic, I don't see much ill-will beteen privates and publics in NKY. My opinion is that their are numerous private schools in the NKY area and on various levels. None have become too dominant, other than Cov Cath, but year in and year out their is usually a public school to counter them at each classification. Cov Cath is fairly dominant and it only has an enrollment of roughly 500+ kids. That is what, 1/4 the size of X and Trinity?

There is a population disparity between NKY and Jeff County. As for Lexington, you have LC casting a wide net. In NKY the net is significantly smaller.

 

Labs, you raise several good points. I was not aware that 50% of the kids in Ft. M go to private schools. Where did you get that stat from? Its rather surprising to me.

 

I do think there are some public schools that do not accept mediocrity. But I do not think it is the vast majority. You raise a good point about the effect of state testing and No Child Left Behind, but those are relatively recent "initiatives" and if you look at the results of those tests you will have to admit there are still lots of schools not doing well. But even if for argument sakes those initiatives are having a positive effect, as mentioned above, they are relatively recent initiatives. Its going to take a lot more than several years to build the level of community support that the privates schools do. Does Holmes have and actively promote an alumni association and work with the alumni association to make it a active group? Does Holmes have bingo and other fundraisers that brings the alumni and parents together on a regular basis? Does Holmes have regular meetings during sports like Elder has a Dad's Club for its football program (which is open to not only the dads but also other supporters of the program)? Does it really reach out to the community and alumni on regular basis? Those types of things occur at a private school and develop a cohesiveness for its supporters. Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I know I just don't see those things happening at a lot of public schools and those things are what builds the tight knit support that the private schools have in my opinion.

 

As for Newport, I have acknowledged the declining enrollment. A large part of which is directly attributable to the past poor athletic and academic performance. Brandt is changing that. He acknowledges the difficulty of being an inner city school, but will not accept that as an excuse. One thing I would like to see him do is create the advanced studies program that Holmes has. I believe that without Holmes advanced studies program, Holmes would be in a lot worse shape and I credit the past administrators for having the foresight to start the program and Moreland credit for continuing it. It really is a top notch program.

 

Admittedly some of the problems that public schools face are forced upon them. I wish the legislators would get rid of this mentality that trouble makers and apathetic students must be kept in school. We've become the babysitters and parents of way too many kids. They get used to the public safety net and never learn self dependance. I heard on McConnell's radio show that we pay for 29 million breakfasts in the US each year. That's ridiculous. I understand the need for a good breakfast, but you cannot convince me that the parents of these kids cannot afford a couple of eggs and a piece of toast a day for their children, not when I see the parents wasting money on cigarettes, booze, etc.

 

We've allowed the poor to become dependant on us and have taken away the incentives for them to get out of the poor status. I'd cancel tbe breakfast programs and most of the welfare programs if "I was King". No doubt that for a period of time, crime would go up. But I'd take the money we pour into welfare programs and build more jails and I tell kids and parents that they either put for the required effort or they are going to end up in jail. Sooner, as opposed to later, they'd get the message. And even if they did not, the disruptive students would be out of the school system where they detract from those wanting to get a good education and the adults would be locked up and off the streets where some of them cause crimes and otherwise consume our society's resources.

 

Call me a fan of tough love if you will. Maybe I'm all wrong about the situation, but I do know this: the war against poverty has not worked and is not working. We have third generation of families in poverty and still dependent upon welfare. We have able bodied men standing on street corners when there are jobs that they are capable of performing going unfilled. We have ridiculous amounts of education programs available to the unskilled to become skilled that are not taken advantage of. But we make it easy for them to stay on street corners and collect welfare. We have young mothers unable to self provide for their existing children getting pregnant and we give them more welfare. And it may sound mean, but that's simply wrong.

 

Unfortunately, its our compassion that's holding these people in their current status of poor. And I understand the compassion and logic behind welfare programs. I often tell people that while I am a conservative I "understand" liberals. They are some of the most caring, compassionate people on the face of the earth. Its their qualities of love and compassion that causes them to support the liberal agenda of welfare. But I do feel that society can spoil the poor just like a parent can spoil a child. At some point, the poor must be told you must better yourself. We will not do it for you. And if you don't learn to support yourselves, you and your children will pay the consequences. It does not take a village to raise a child, its takes motivated and caring parents and we cannot make it easy for them to shuck their responsibilities onto society.

 

Sorry if I got off thread with my response.