I am not sure if you are saying that all straight men have at least some little inkling of gay in them or not but if you are, you are wrong. I am 110% hetero and I am not saying that to be macho or anything. I also have nothing against gay people - I really don't. However, I have never had any sort of urge of any type toward another male for one millisecond. I am not alone in that either.

 

Just reciting lecture from a Psychology class that I took in college called Human Sexuality. Very rarely do you have true 0's and true 10's on that scale.

I guess I don't. So please do this for me. I promise that this is in no way meant to be condescending although I seem to have this affect.

 

Please ask me a question that I have seemingly danced around. I want to answer it. I know you do not owe me this at all. Bit please do it anyway.

 

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more outwardly verbal with more fervor to the secular world about homosexuality than they are about pre-marital sex and divorce?

 

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more likely to come out into the public with signs and voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that homosexuality is immoral, more so than they would be to voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that pre-maritial sex and divorce is immoral?

 

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more likely to write articles aimed at the secular world expressing their Christian views that homosexuality is immoral more so than they would be to write articles aimed at the secular world expressing their Christian views that pre-marital sex and divorce is immoral?

 

Do you think that many of the recent fundamental Christian county clerks who've refused to process marriage license applications for gays have or would also refuse a straight couple coming in to file for divorce?

 

In summary, do you think that fundamental Christians in general make way more of professing their Christians views to the secular world regarding homosexuality, than they do about professing their Christian views to the secular world regarding pre-marital sex and divorce?

 

Please don't confuse these questions as me placing any moral or immoral judgement on any of these items, gay or straight. I'm merely just referencing Christian views, and questioning you by your request from your last post.

 

The following is a portion of a post from UKMustangFan that initially kicked off this specific part of the discussion, and he did not single out anyone as he just said "Many Christians"

 

Then this specific part of the discussion took on a life of its own...

 

"I guess my point was many Christians see homosexual acts as some grievous sin, while they don't share the same disdain for a man and woman committing the same act outside of marriage".

B-Ball-fan:

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere in all this and if you already answered this my apologies..... but I would like your opinion on if you believe everyone was born with a sexual preference. So either they desire the same sex or the opposite sex.

 

I think the majority of people are born that way. But I also think others are born bi-sexual I guess in that they could be happy in a union with the same sex or with the opposite sex. But I also think some people gravitate one way based on a bad experience. For example a women can be married to a man for XX number of years and then it sours. Then maybe more bad opposite sex experiences occur. Then she finds happiness with a same sex relationship. Do you think that she was born that way or just decided to find happiness and it happened to be with another women in a same sex relationship.... but it just a easily could have been in a relationship with a man?

 

Just interested in your thoughts on that.

B-Ball-fan:

 

Maybe I missed it somewhere in all this and if you already answered this my apologies..... but I would like your opinion on if you believe everyone was born with a sexual preference. So either they desire the same sex or the opposite sex.

 

I think the majority of people are born that way. But I also think others are born bi-sexual I guess in that they could be happy in a union with the same sex or with the opposite sex. But I also think some people gravitate one way based on a bad experience. For example a women can be married to a man for XX number of years and then it sours. Then maybe more bad opposite sex experiences occur. Then she finds happiness with a same sex relationship. Do you think that she was born that way or just decided to find happiness and it happened to be with another women in a same sex relationship.... but it just a easily could have been in a relationship with a man?

 

Just interested in your thoughts on that.

 

Thank you for your honest open minded question.

 

I've copied what I said in post #4 of this thread because I think that it might help answer what you are asking me. I will post it after saying this first...

 

My personal experience is one that so many others have shared with me about their own experiences growing up gay. With that said, I can't speak for everyone, and just as you have suggested there might be other various reasons that lead someone down that road.

 

When it comes to women, some are just gay from childhood, just as I was, but I've seen more examples of the sour relationship with men thing that you described leading women to be with women than I have ever seen it with men leaving woman for that same reason. For the most part gay men tend to be gay without doubt, and if they ever did marry a woman it was out of confusion in their younger years of what to do about it.

 

Here's what I said in post #4

 

I don't know if I was actually born gay, but as far back as I can remember I have been attracted to the same sex, while never in my life have I ever been attracted to the opposite sex.

 

Why I am this way I really don't know, but I'm certain that it was not a choice.

 

If given the choice I would certainly have chosen to be straight and avoid all of my painful childhood paranoia living in the closet.

 

While the majority of the world around you is straight, and you've seen how gays can be ridiculed, choosing something that might cause you social ostracism and ridicule would not make much sense.

 

I had to come to terms with it all eventually to accept myself and try to live a happy life, but initially I most certainly would have chosen to be straight if given the chance.

 

After thought:

 

I can see how some think that they were born that way, because just like myself they can't remember a time when they weren't, and even before puberty.

 

I've had some straight people ask me how I knew before puberty, and all I can say is I just knew.

 

No two humans are exposed to the exact billions of stimulus from the time they are born.

 

I've seen gay people come from all walks of life from every type of family structure imaginable.

 

It's really hard to pinpoint one exact thing in childhood that could condition a child in a gay direction, but just as much as I believe in the possible nature of being born gay, I believe in a not so evident nurturing that is hard to pinpoint.

 

In some ways I tend to think that it might be for many, especially those who knew from childhood, a little bit of both, but at the end of the day, even though I'm gay for certain and without choice, I can't say for sure why.

Dead on my Brother...So many Christians today are blind to their own hypocrisy that they don't even know it.

I am a Christian that sees exactly what you are talking about.:thumb:

 

Thanks... it sure is a relief to know that somebody does. And thankfully others out here do as well.

 

Somehow though I really ought to be looking for the exit sign on these type of discussions. At the end of the day, I ultimately have to be the one who's starting to look pretty ridiculous by going 'round and 'round and 'round.

 

I do realize that with a handful of folks out here I will never get anywhere.

 

You can even take the gay thing off of the table, and still there is so many differences in my thought processes compared to theirs.

 

I like to keep an open mind, but I can't escape logic and realism either.

 

I guess after so many years of questioning and analysis on so many topics, simply thinking as some others do who might not have done the same, is something that isn't likely to happen with me.

 

I personally don't live by any definable labels related to the ultimate truth, but that's not to say that I don't keep open to, and stay hopeful that there's more to the bigger picture than meets the eye. To pretend that I know what that is without doubt, I cannot do at present. Will I be able to sometime before I die I cannot say.

 

I imagine if I dug deep enough I might find some common ground with them.

 

Who knows?...I like chocolate chip ice cream, a few of them might also like chocolate chip ice cream... it might be small, but it's a start I suppose.

 

They're free to believe as they do and I would defend their right to. If they knowingly or unknowingly distort the truth in an effort to mess with my freedoms, then I have to draw the line, and that's when I feel compelled to clear the air about so many tired misconceptions.

 

When some speak sometimes in such an authoritative manner, while it's apparent to me that there are so many angles related to a topic that they've obviously never entertained, and I personally have analyzed it myself about 1000 times, it's hard for me not to inject new territory for them to ponder.

 

No matter how much sense I might think that I'm making, I'd still be a fool to think just because I've offered other points of view to ponder that are new to their minds, that I stand any chance of penetrating their already solid wall of concepts.

 

For some it seems that to get a better understanding would mean for them, they fear, that the entire wall would have to come down, and that's not gonna happen, nor should it have to.

 

Anyhow, bottom line though Is I have my own issues with just walking away from some of these endless, get nowhere topics, and personally that is something that I truly need to work on. I have friends who would knee-jerkingly say "OMG I could never allow myself to be bothered with all of that", and I completely get where they're coming from.

I can see how some think that they were born that way, because just like myself they can't remember a time when they weren't, and even before puberty.

 

I've had some straight people ask me how I knew before puberty, and all I can say is I just knew.

 

 

In all seriousness, same here. I knew in the second grade. It was a girl named Sandra. I don't think that I had reached puberty prior to age 7.

I didn't chose....my wife chose it for me.

 

Happiness.......chose happiness, people

FWIW, and not that anyone said otherwise, but just because I am a sinner does not mean I lack the ability to see when others sin.

 

I am reading a lot about "Catholics don't condemn heterosexual couples who have premarital sex but they do condemn gays," etc. Whether that is true or not, it does not make an objectively wrong act an okay thing to do.

 

The only "equality" IMO that humans share is that we are all loved by God and all sinners. Different ethnic groups and sexual-orientation groups will forever be fighting, and maybe even WASPS will fight for "equality" after everyone on here's lifetime. But in the end, we all have different gifts and different burdens. And that is not a bad thing.

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more outwardly verbal with more fervor to the secular world about homosexuality than they are about pre-marital sex and divorce?

 

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more likely to come out into the public with signs and voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that homosexuality is immoral, more so than they would be to voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that pre-maritial sex and divorce is immoral?

 

Do you think that fundamental Christians in general are way more likely to write articles aimed at the secular world expressing their Christian views that homosexuality is immoral more so than they would be to write articles aimed at the secular world expressing their Christian views that pre-marital sex and divorce is immoral?

 

Do you think that many of the recent fundamental Christian county clerks who've refused to process marriage license applications for gays have or would also refuse a straight couple coming in to file for divorce?

 

In summary, do you think that fundamental Christians in general make way more of professing their Christians views to the secular world regarding homosexuality, than they do about professing their Christian views to the secular world regarding pre-marital sex and divorce?

 

Sorry it took a full day. Traveling for the holiday. Thanks for your response. I see four questions.

 

1. Yes I believe that Christians in general are way more outwardly verbal with more fervor to the secular world about homosexuality than they are about pre-marital sex and divorce. I think the reason they do this is because it is such a hot topic these days. In the 1960s, they were going crazy over bell bottoms and long hair. In the early 20th Century they focused on pianos.

 

2. Yes I recognize that Christians are more likely to come out into the public with signs and voice their religious views that homosexuality is immoral, more so than they would be to voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that pre-marital sex and divorce is immoral. Maybe they do this because the government is not involved in either of those issues or perhaps they are more likely to experience divorce or pre-marital sex in their lives or family.

 

3. Yes I do believe they are more likely to write articles condemning homosexuality as opposed to divorce or pre-marital sex, but I have rarely read articles about either of these topics.

 

4. No I do not think that clerks would refuse divorce certificates even though it violates their faith just as much as homosexuality violates their faith. I do not know why they do this but in all honesty, if I were in their shoes I do not know how I would react. Maybe they do not feel like divorces in our country has altered the definition of marriage? I do not know.

 

2 questions for you to please answer...

 

1. What do you mean by fundamental christians? I know what a fundamental islamist and fundamental LDS is, but not too sure what you consider to be a fundamentalist christian.

 

2. Is it possible that the reason Christians attack homosexuality more zealously than divorce or pre-marital sex simple because homosexuality is more of a hot topic in the news and in our country?

FWIW, and not that anyone said otherwise, but just because I am a sinner does not mean I lack the ability to see when others sin.

 

I am reading a lot about "Catholics don't condemn heterosexual couples who have premarital sex but they do condemn gays," etc. Whether that is true or not, it does not make an objectively wrong act an okay thing to do.

 

The only "equality" IMO that humans share is that we are all loved by God and all sinners. Different ethnic groups and sexual-orientation groups will forever be fighting, and maybe even WASPS will fight for "equality" after everyone on here's lifetime. But in the end, we all have different gifts and different burdens. And that is not a bad thing.

 

It makes them hypocritical for choosing which sins to loudly denounce and others to look the other way. Maybe it's because those others hit too close to home.

It makes them hypocritical for choosing which sins to loudly denounce and others to look the other way. Maybe it's because those others hit too close to home.

 

True. Maybe I live in a bubble, but the Church that I know does not "loudly denounce" anybody or any specific sins. JMO.

FWIW, and not that anyone said otherwise, but just because I am a sinner does not mean I lack the ability to see when others sin.

 

I am reading a lot about "Catholics don't condemn heterosexual couples who have premarital sex but they do condemn gays," etc. Whether that is true or not, it does not make an objectively wrong act an okay thing to do.

 

The only "equality" IMO that humans share is that we are all loved by God and all sinners. Different ethnic groups and sexual-orientation groups will forever be fighting, and maybe even WASPS will fight for "equality" after everyone on here's lifetime. But in the end, we all have different gifts and different burdens. And that is not a bad thing.

 

Are you sure you didn't mean to use the word "subjectively" here?

 

Please tell me that you're not confused by the difference between these two words.

 

When some consider subjective to mean objective , there in lies the problem with what is the root of such grave communication differences.

Sorry it took a full day. Traveling for the holiday. Thanks for your response. I see four questions.

 

1. Yes I believe that Christians in general are way more outwardly verbal with more fervor to the secular world about homosexuality than they are about pre-marital sex and divorce. I think the reason they do this is because it is such a hot topic these days. In the 1960s, they were going crazy over bell bottoms and long hair. In the early 20th Century they focused on pianos.

 

2. Yes I recognize that Christians are more likely to come out into the public with signs and voice their religious views that homosexuality is immoral, more so than they would be to voice out loud to the secular world their religious views that pre-marital sex and divorce is immoral. Maybe they do this because the government is not involved in either of those issues or perhaps they are more likely to experience divorce or pre-marital sex in their lives or family.

 

3. Yes I do believe they are more likely to write articles condemning homosexuality as opposed to divorce or pre-marital sex, but I have rarely read articles about either of these topics.

 

4. No I do not think that clerks would refuse divorce certificates even though it violates their faith just as much as homosexuality violates their faith. I do not know why they do this but in all honesty, if I were in their shoes I do not know how I would react. Maybe they do not feel like divorces in our country has altered the definition of marriage? I do not know.

 

2 questions for you to please answer...

 

1. What do you mean by fundamental christians? I know what a fundamental islamist and fundamental LDS is, but not too sure what you consider to be a fundamentalist christian.

 

2. Is it possible that the reason Christians attack homosexuality more zealously than divorce or pre-marital sex simple because homosexuality is more of a hot topic in the news and in our country?

 

1. In general I'd say my perception of what a fundamental Christian is, is one who believes that the Bible is entirely the inspired word of God, and that these writings are the complete foundation and centerpiece of one's life, and the only necessary go to literature when it comes to following rules in life to live by.

 

To them this book holds the keys to an afterlife in the Kingdom of Heaven, and their belief and faith is solid that by following these words, they are following the only true path that is right for humanity to take.

 

Although the main focus of a fundamental Christian is that Jesus Christ is the son of God and can save lives with those who accept him into their lives, and by following his word, one will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, the Bible still with it's many authors is still viewed as a complete work of God's message, and therefore is just as necessary and valid as any reference to Jesus Christ.

 

If I were to add the word "extreme" to "fundamentalist Christian", this might suggest one who actively spreads their belief in the Bible, and feels obligated to, so much that they place that belief in full view of others with whom they think are not living properly or living by the words in the Bible, with the hopes that others too will see the light and truth just as they do, and while they are completely convinced that without doubt they are spreading the truth, they are also convinced that spreading it is the right thing to do even if it might make others uncomfortable and feel judged.

 

The ultimate goal to them it would seem is way more important than how uncomfortable one might feel by being exposed to what they consider to be the truth. Although with no solid proof of anything, with this belief being so strong, there's little chance that one could carry on a open minded conversation with an "extreme fundamentalist Christian", for they are so completely set in their beliefs that exploring any ideas outside of their faith would be unacceptable, however they would not hesitate to force their beliefs on others.

 

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2. I'd say yes, it's possible that the reason Christians attack homosexuality more zealously than divorce or pre-maritial sex is because it's a hot topic..........

 

...... however I would lean more toward feeling that homosexuality with so many is such a foreign idea that many could not fathom the thought of partaking in such a behavior that to think that someone does is appalling and immoral, and with that foundation of thought along with Bible references, to allow this to be accepted so freely in society that it is also accepted to the point of same-sex marriages would make those who are appalled by it shudder to think that we live in a culture that would so freely accept something that is considered so immoral and foreign to them.

 

On the other hand these same people who take issue with homosexuality, when it comes to pre-marital sex and divorce (that they also consider a sin), although they hope never to fall to temptations that makes them partake, or that they never divorce, it's not completely unfathomable for them to see themselves or other straight people fall in such a manner, and the idea is not so completely foreign.

 

They may have experienced in their own lives either being tempted, or falling to temptation that they see it as something that they can identify with, although still considered a sin, and something they hope not to fall to. Still at the end of the day it's not something that seems so foreign to them, and although they may not feel at liberty to admit it, deep down it doesn't seem as grave a sin to them as homosexuality does.

I suspect that the reason Christian groups are more vocal against homosexuality is that there is a large vocal group that demands the societal acceptance of homosexuality.

 

You don't see groups out there arguing we need more divorce or more gambling or more (insert your chosen sin here).

 

When those topics come up (like city/county looking to build a casino) you will see Christian groups vocally opposing it. These other topics just don't come up as often and are not headline news on a regular basis like the homosexual movement is.

Gay relationships have been around since recorded history and obviously before. There is an argument that such relations are not 'natural' and not part of a higher plan - i.e. not part of 'Gods plan'. But if that is the case they why has this type of relationship existed since the start of time. If its simply a choice then that choice has been occuring literally forever. It seems something far more complex than simple 'choice' - for straight, gay, and bi individuals.

 

As one of the more marked differences between the Jewish faith and traditional Christian faith, the Jewish considers sexuality an issue of the mortal world and places less emphasis of the spiritual nature of sexuality. Maybe there is something to that approach.