Jordan had to compete with the likes of Ewing, Barkley, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton all at the peaks of their careers. I believe the level of competition in Jordan's era was a lot higher than of Lebron's era. I look at todays NBA and other than Lebron and Curry, I don't see Top 50 talent in this era. (Excluding Kobe whose era has passed).

 

I disagree. Jordan couldn't beat any of those dudes until they all got old. He never faced Olajuwan in the Finals or when Olajuwan was at the tip top of his game. Malone, Stockton, Barkley and Ewing he all defeated along with those stacked Portland teams but back then the Western Conference wasn't stacked like it is now. I think overall the league is more talented from top to bottom now than when MJ played.

Jordan also wins in intangibles. Some may discount that, but that weighs heavily in my mind. Dude absolutely buckled under the pressure in 2011 against the Mavs and went in to a shell. I can't ignore that. The greatest of all time does not do that. That is as huge of a demerit as any great has ever accrued on a resume. Even if the Spurs were better last season, they were not better to the point they should have won by a record margin. The greatest of all time does not allow that to happen.

 

MJ buckled under pressure also. How soon we forget. The Bad Boys embarrassed him and Pippen two years in a row.

 

There isn't a single player in the history of the game who hasn't succumbed to some kind of defeat in a debilitating manner at some time in their career. The great ones get better from it. The rest become Tracy McGrady and Dwight Howard.

MJ buckled under pressure also. How soon we forget. The Bad Boys embarrassed him and Pippen two years in a row.

 

There isn't a single player in the history of the game who hasn't succumbed to some kind of defeat in a debilitating manner at some time in their career. The great ones get better from it. The rest become Tracy McGrady and Dwight Howard.

 

:lol2::lol2::lol2:

Not yet. His early failings in big games will always haunt him when comparing him to Jordan. This is really unfair to him. The East has been SOOOOOO bad while he's played that it was much easier for him to make a final at a younger age than Jordan and he wasn't ready. He also didn't have a very good team and the Spurs were awesome. Where Jordan had to scratch and claw past the Pistons for 3 years which kept him from getting to a final, Lebron only had to beat the Pistons as they were the class of the East while he was with Cleveland. Then, when the C's got together, he really really looked bad in that playoff series clincher.

 

Additionally, that first Finals loss w/ the Heat will hurt him as well. Jordan and the Bulls do not lose to those Mavs.

 

When the Bulls finally won titles the Bad Boys were old as were the Lakers. The East wasn't all that great after the Bulls finally beat the Bad Boys and rose to greatness. After the Bad Boys they got an old Magic Johnson and not the Showtime Lakers team. Wasn't Vlade Divac the center? When the Bulls went on their run from 91-98 all they had to do was beat the Knicks which proved to be pretty easy. No one in the East ever challenged them.

 

Only had to beat the Pistons? Those Pistons teams were loaded and went to the Finals two years in a row didn't they? Those Pistons embarrassed a Laker team that had Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton on it. They gave the Spurs all they wanted also didn't they?

 

The Celtics had to go get Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen to add to Paul Pierce and Rondo just so they could beat Lebron James, Mo Williams and Boobie Gibson in a 7 game series. Need I say more.........

I would love to have watched the '94 Bulls play the Rockets. Hakeem would have been a matchup issue for the Bulls, but they had enough big bodies to throw at him. The wildcard of Vernon Maxwell v Jordan and whether he would hit 7 3s in a row or throw a punch and get suspended would have been an interesting side story.

 

Same here. Those Houston teams would have been fun to watch against the Bulls. I still think the Bulls win but Houston has never had better teams.

LJ plays in the East and right now its just bad basketball. Probably has a losing record in the finals, chokes at times, turns it over a ton. Physically really gifted, almost as much as Wilt was. What he did this year in the playoffs up to this point has been fun to watch. That does not make him the best ever IMO. If the Celtics dont lose maybe one of the best college players ever to an overdose they probably win 6 more championships and we are saying Bird has 8-10 rings

 

Ifs don't work.

 

If Lebron had gone to the Lakers instead of the Heat then Kobe has 8 rings and Lebron has 5 right now. Then who is the greatest?

Jordan had to compete with the likes of Ewing, Barkley, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton all at the peaks of their careers. I believe the level of competition in Jordan's era was a lot higher than of Lebron's era. I look at todays NBA and other than Lebron and Curry, I don't see Top 50 talent in this era. (Excluding Kobe whose era has passed).

 

Possible Top 50 all time in LeBron era:

 

Tim Duncan

Dirk

Kobe

Wade

Nash

Kidd

Garnett

Shaq

 

Others in top 100:

 

Vince Carter

Paul Pierce

Durrant

Chris Paul

Dwight Howard

Carmello

Ray Allen

Pau Gasol

Bosh

 

That list doesn't even include the current stars like Davis, Harden, Curry, Westbrook, etc

Thank you for the history lesson. Here is what you missed. Players are judged ultimately by how they performed in the Finals. Years of playoff failure is forgotten. You have a bad finals experience and it stigmatizes your career. Jordan 1st got to the Finals at the Pinnacle of his career. He was at the height of his powers, Pippen was entering his prime, and they had one of the best head coaches ever. It took that for them to get past the Pistons, the greatest at his greatest. Had Lebron had to face that, his first trip to the Finals wouldn't have happened until he joined the Heat. That works to his detriment. He didn't, went to the Finals too early in his career and the Spurs owned the Cavs. In the macro view of his career, it is a blemish when you hold it up to Jordan's.

 

Later, once the C's got loaded, Lebron absolutely was a shell of himself in Game 6. This is the same reason that Kobe won't be seen as great as Michael thanks to his disappearing act in the '08 finals.

 

Finally, you left out the Mavs series. Defend it, please.

 

I have LBJ as the Greatest SF of all time. I do not, however have him as better than Jordan b/c of the same reason that you gave me for why CP3 deserves the heat that he gets. At crucial moments, the greats find ways to win. LBJ has not been the most consistent at those times. Now, he's turned into arguably the best clutch shooter in the game, but when you say the greatest, you can't forget earlier parts of their careers.

MJ buckled under pressure also. How soon we forget. The Bad Boys embarrassed him and Pippen two years in a row.

 

There isn't a single player in the history of the game who hasn't succumbed to some kind of defeat in a debilitating manner at some time in their career. The great ones get better from it. The rest become Tracy McGrady and Dwight Howard.

You seriously equate Jordan losing to Detroit as the same as LeBron folding like a cheap tent against an underdog Mavericks' team?

You seriously equate Jordan losing to Detroit as the same as LeBron folding like a cheap tent against an underdog Mavericks' team?

 

Took the words right outta my mouth.

Jordan had to compete with the likes of Ewing, Barkley, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton all at the peaks of their careers. I believe the level of competition in Jordan's era was a lot higher than of Lebron's era. I look at todays NBA and other than Lebron and Curry, I don't see Top 50 talent in this era. (Excluding Kobe whose era has passed).

 

He played in an era in which Kobe and Duncan were in their primes, that's what he came into the league during. Also, Dirk, Nash, & Garnett were younger, and are top 50 players. DWade isn't a top 50 player all-time? Chris Paul? Durant, Westbrook, Curry, Harden, Davis, Griffin could all end up in the convo.

 

This is the most talent the league has ever had IMO. Its also the biggest league has been so its more spread out. Even remove 3 teams to get to where the NBA was during Jordan's first title and the league would look a lot different.

 

Let's say you get rid of the Kings, TWolves, and Bobcats (3 perennial bottom feeders). You'd be spreading Cousins, Gay, Wiggins, Pekovic, Rubio, Al Jefferson, Kemba, etc. into the league. If you go back to '87, there were only 23 teams. Remove 7 teams and redistribute the league and then say there isn't talent.

Jordan is the better of the two guys. He played tougher competition and never backed down from a challenge.

 

During his championship years? You're joking right? The 90s were the 2nd worst era in NBA history, only surpassed by the early years of the 2000s. Look at the 94 and 95 Finals. The Bulls competed for a championship without Jordan during 94, that's how bad (good) the competition was during Jordan's day. LeBron at least had contemporaries in his era (Kobe, Durant, Wade), Jordan had no one like that. Reggie Miller was the 2nd best wing of Jordan's heyday, I love Reggie but he wasn't as good as any of the three I mentioned. JMO.

Michael lost in the first round of the playoffs in his first three seasons. Finally made it to the finals in year 7.

 

LeBron missed playoffs completely his first two years.Every year since then he has been in the semifinals or better. He did not make his first finals till year 9 of his career.

Edited May 27, 201511 yr by bugatti
Capitalization

Michael lost in the first round of the playoffs in his first three seasons. Finally made it to the finals in year 7.

 

LeBron missed playoffs completely his first two years.Every year since then he has been in the semifinals or better. He did not make his first finals till year 9 of his career.

 

To clarify, LeBron made the finals twice before he won it all in year 9.

During his championship years? You're joking right? The 90s were the 2nd worst era in NBA history, only surpassed by the early years of the 2000s. Look at the 94 and 95 Finals. The Bulls competed for a championship without Jordan during 94, that's how bad (good) the competition was during Jordan's day. LeBron at least had contemporaries in his era (Kobe, Durant, Wade), Jordan had no one like that. Reggie Miller was the 2nd best wing of Jordan's heyday, I love Reggie but he wasn't as good as any of the three I mentioned. JMO.

 

Don't know man, 76'-80' were so bad the Finals were on Tape delay.