That's cool' date=' I'm just saying that if you put Okafor in Town's situation defensively, then he looks a lot better. If you put Towns in Okafor's, I'm not sure he looks any better. He's asked to do more, play more minutes, all that. Yes, his numbers would jump from more minutes, but you probably see more holes in his game exposed as well. .[/quote']

 

What type of flaws would you anticipate to see in Towns' game?

What type of flaws would you anticipate to see in Towns' game?

 

He's a bit foul prone for a guy who doesn't have to play a ton of minutes as is. I would like to see how a guy who is already a bit foul prone handles being asked to play a ton of minutes and stay out of foul trouble as he tires.

 

For another, I'd like to see more from him in terms of giving up deep post position. Doesn't have the quickest or highest standing vertical either. Both of those are a question of lower body strength. Relatively speaking, he's a way better leaper on the run, but that's not really always conductive to post defense.

 

Okafor would probably look like a terror defensively if he had Willie Cauley-Stein coming help-side and swatting shots and opponents knew it.

Okafors bread and butter is backing guys down in the paint, but it won't translate well to the NBA right away. He has no range, and plays defense horribly. Towns might not be great in everything, but he is the most well rounded player in this class, and I think he could be a star in the league. I'll take Towns.

Would also like to add that for all of Okafor's flaws as a defender, one place I don't really see KAT catching up to him is his rebound rate at the pro level. Okafor is just too big a body to keep off the glass.

Would also like to add that for all of Okafor's flaws as a defender, one place I don't really see KAT catching up to him is his rebound rate at the pro level. Okafor is just too big a body to keep off the glass.

Well not really, Towns already rebounds at a slightly higher rate.

Well except for the facts Towns already rebounds at a slightly higher rate.

 

Do you care to post the stat and are you saying he averages more per minute or are you factoring in possessions, pace of play, all that? When it comes to cleaning the defensive glass, I'm taking Okafor all day and would be surprised if Towns out rebounds him in terms of adjusted rebound rate at the professional level.

 

If we're talking rebounds per minute played in college, then no, I'm not going to be surprised if Towns is higher at this level, as he seems to be by a slight margin right now.

 

Kentucky's system and what Towns is asked to do in it is going to skew some numbers.

That's cool, I'm just saying that if you put Okafor in Town's situation defensively, then he looks a lot better. If you put Towns in Okafor's, I'm not sure he looks any better. He's asked to do more, play more minutes, all that. Yes, his numbers would jump from more minutes, but you probably see more holes in his game exposed as well.

 

Okafor isn't a rim protector, but at the spot he's drafted, his franchise probably finds one to play with him if that's what the team needs badly enough.

 

Okafor can still keep other posts from getting deep position because he's so massive. Nothing stopping him from relatively holding his own in a one on one situation down on the blocks in the NBA, at least to the extent he'll eventually be asked to.

 

Rim protectors in the NBA are easier to find than guys who are Okafor's size with those kinds of feet and scoring ability.

 

Your attempt to convince yourself didn't do anything to sway me.

 

Okafor will get his for the most part sealing a defender on the block. What else does he do at a high level that we have seen so far? Face up? Pass? Defend? Convert fouls to points? Erase mistakes when his guards get beat?

 

He is an ELITE post scorer. That isn't up for debate. Now, what else has he shown? Anyone? Buehler???

Your attempt to convince yourself didn't do anything to sway me.

 

Okafor will get his for the most part sealing a defender on the block. What else does he do at a high level that we have seen so far? Face up? Pass? Defend? Convert fouls to points? Erase mistakes when his guards get beat?

 

He is an ELITE post scorer. That isn't up for debate. Now, what else has he shown? Anyone? Buehler???

 

What did Shaq do or what does Dwight Howard do well besides be freaking massive but nimble for their size, eat space in the middle, and score because of it?

 

Saying, "yea... take away his ability as a post scorer and Okafor isn't nearly as good" is like saying "yea... Rondo isn't a really good point guard when you take away all the assists he gets".

 

I mean, if we're only taking away the thing he's most dominant at and is seen as being the most dominant at in the past five or so years...

 

BTW, I do think he shows good awareness feeling doubles and passes pretty well given too.

What did Shaq do or what does Dwight Howard do well besides be freaking massive but nimble for their size, eat space in the middle, and score because of it?

 

Saying, "yea... take away his ability as a post scorer and Okafor isn't nearly as good" is like saying "yea... Rondo isn't a really good point guard when you take away all the assists he gets".

 

I mean, if we're only taking away the thing he's most dominant at and is seen as being the most dominant at in the past five or so years...

 

Here's your flaw. He isn't anywhere close to Shaq or even Howard as an athlete. He's a below the rim, block to block post scorer that will have to adjust to everyone defending him being just as massive, if not bigger.

 

You take the one dimensional guy with your head in the sand about everything else. That's typically how people get fired when those choices matter.

 

I'm saying what else does he do when the one thing he does well is reduced even a little? If you don't have an answer, we're done here... :thumb:

What did Shaq do or what does Dwight Howard do well besides be freaking massive but nimble for their size, eat space in the middle, and score because of it?

 

Saying, "yea... take away his ability as a post scorer and Okafor isn't nearly as good" is like saying "yea... Rondo isn't a really good point guard when you take away all the assists he gets".

 

I mean, if we're only taking away the thing he's most dominant at and is seen as being the most dominant at in the past five or so years...

 

BTW, I do think he shows good awareness feeling doubles and passes pretty well given too.

 

He ain't Shack and he isn't anywhere close to the freak Dwight Howard is. Dwight was the best rim defender in the league for a while. Still is pretty elite. Shaq was crazy strong and powerful.

Here's your flaw. He isn't anywhere close to Shaq or even Howard as an athlete. He's a below the rim, block to block post scorer that will have to adjust to everyone defending him being just as massive, if not bigger.

 

You take the one dimensional guy with your head in the sand about everything else. That's typically how people get fired when those choices matter.

 

I'm saying what else does he do when the one thing he does well is reduced even a little? If you don't have an answer, we're done here... :thumb:

 

 

Okay, who at the next level reduces what he does well? Who knocks him off the blocks?

 

We're just talking about a guy who has crazy percentages (6th highest FG % in the nation) despite a crazy usage rate.

 

Are there 6'11, 270 pound bulls who have nimble feet just growing on trees that I don't know about?

 

I'll give you Davis, Howard, Ibaka... ok. Do anyone of those not shut down Towns to the same extent, if not even worse?

 

Getting enamored with a guy's upside and potential while not looking at the kind of system he plays in potentially masking flaws gets just as many people fired.

 

Here are a few stats:

 

"Duke has posted 1.42 points per play and shot nearly 73% when Okafor touches the ball inside the paint... His passing is comparable to that of Sacramento’s DeMarcus Cousins (whose 19.6% assist rate this season is best among NBA players 6-foot-11 and taller)... Duke players have shot 52% overall, and 45% from three, when their looks stem from an Okafor pass, per SportVU".

 

You can't stop Okafor one on one and he's shooting a ridiculous percentage given his use rate. If you double him he's showing an assist rate that's on pace with Cousins (2nd in the NBA for a guy of his size), and his team shoots a ridiculous percentage on possessions where he gets a touch.

 

So aside from his once/twice in a decade talent as a post scorer, he's also a good passer.

 

Comprende' there and would you at least give me that one? Maybe it's an anomaly that his team shoots such a crazy percentage on possessions where he touches, but I don't think it's just coincidence.'

 

 

 

If we want to say the "bigger, more athletic defenders", then take away Towns' ability to stretch the floor with his shooting and what do you have? That's essentially what you're saying with taking away Okafor's post scoring, but with Okafor, I think it's to an even greater degree.

 

Regardless, when a wiry guy like Noah can chase Towns all over the floor and get up in his shot, what does Towns do to dominate? Seems to be in the same predicament. I don't see him just taking a Noah into the post and bullying him mercilessly.

 

 

BTW, I really respect your opinion on the game and think it's a close question because the players are so close and it's a matter of preference.

Here's your flaw. He isn't anywhere close to Shaq or even Howard as an athlete. He's a below the rim, block to block post scorer that will have to adjust to everyone defending him being just as massive, if not bigger.

 

You take the one dimensional guy with your head in the sand about everything else. That's typically how people get fired when those choices matter.

 

I'm saying what else does he do when the one thing he does well is reduced even a little? If you don't have an answer, we're done here... :thumb:

 

That's why I compare him to Boogie. Boogie has been able to become an above average defender , but defense was his weakness for most his NBA career. Okafor doesn't have Boogie's range though.

I would draft Okafor. He is going to make you better right now.

 

Yeah but 2-3 years down the line, KAT will probably make you better. Are you building a team for the next two or three years or the next 8-10?

Would also like to add that for all of Okafor's flaws as a defender, one place I don't really see KAT catching up to him is his rebound rate at the pro level. Okafor is just too big a body to keep off the glass.

 

Well not really, Towns already rebounds at a slightly higher rate.

 

AND.....Okafor plays below the rim. Not something you want out of your big in the NBA.

AND.....Okafor plays below the rim. Not something you want out of your big in the NBA.

 

Doesn't Tim Duncan play below the rim?