A theory is that God knows how each person would respond IF the gospel were presented to them , and judges accordingly . Its not to much a stretch at all. God knows everything , to depths we cant fathom. He makes mountains bow , He makes nature tremble . He knew us in the womb , I believe he has fore knowledge of everything.

UK MustangFan . I dont claim to be a biblical scholar and I dont know how a just God will judge that person, But I see next to nothing that supports that view from scripture . Humans do need to understand that God/JC/HS is/are perfect . One sin ( adam and eve) is enough to separate us forever in eternity from God . Scripture is crystal clear that humans cant be moral enough or good enough to gain entry into eternity with a perfect God without the blood of Jesus covering their sins . If you dont know or claim Jesus you are not getting in . To me , thats clear from scripture .

 

I never said it was supported from scripture. It's my belief, not anyone else.

 

I'm just trying to understand the thought process that basically says if you're born in a region of the world that doesn't know Jesus, God is basically saying "sorry, you're screwed". That doesn't sound like a loving God to me.

I never said it was supported from scripture. It's my belief, not anyone else.

 

I'm just trying to understand the thought process that basically says if you're born in a region of the world that doesn't know Jesus, God is basically saying "sorry, you're screwed". That doesn't sound like a loving God to me.

I think that was the point of the great commission.

I think that was the point of the great commission.

 

Even so, there's no denying there are those in this world that haven't been given the opportunity to know Jesus. How can God exclude those who haven't even been given that choice?

Even so, there's no denying there are those in this world that haven't been given the opportunity to know Jesus. How can God exclude those who haven't even been given that choice?

I agree with you on this one. I feel the same about infant death or death before an age of accountability. I think scripture backs this up to some extent in 2 Peter 2:21 when Christ himself says "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

I know that it's often quoted as a deterent for "backsliding" and the like, but commentary supports your position to a degree.

Even so, there's no denying there are those in this world that haven't been given the opportunity to know Jesus. How can God exclude those who haven't even been given that choice?

Another theory is God wont start the last days or begin the end times until the gospel has been spread , even to the very ends of the earth . But there are people who dont wish to hear anything from the outside world . That peril is their own .

It has always puzzled me how so many earthlings can speak day after day throughout their entire lives, clearly in subjective fashion, and all the while be convinced that they are being objective, while a small portion of people who are no closer to all the answers either, aim at objectivity, but tend to be by the masses, discouraged for doing so.

 

Why is it that objectivity is so out of favor by the majority?

 

Faith is fine, but when it's forever presented as cold hard truth, that's when it would appear to some smaller amounts of people as bordering the delusional.

 

No matter where we all stand, everyone would like to arrive at some sort of tangible evidence of truth, but just because our desire is so strong doesn't mean that repeating long held human created concepts today makes them any more valid than they were when created by humans years ago.

 

We can't simply create the answer for the question of the ultimate truth by uttering what we might hope that it is. Speaking time and again, long held concepts does not give concrete validation to these long held concepts just because it's what we'd like to, or feel we must believe.

 

I get that we all have a sense of hope, but where in that hope does our objective mind get nudged out to only be left with mythical thoughts that we hold in such high regard as being the ultimate explanation, that century after century has never come any closer to than the last in making any valid sense of?

 

Humanity carries man-made concepts from generation to generation, all the while marking them as indisputable truth, all the while these concepts vary from religion to religion, all convinced that their religion is the one true religion that holds the ultimate truth.

 

This is not meant to cut anyone down for having a belief, or even suggest that there's anything wrong with that, but just an honest objective critical examination that begs to question how the proponents of these concepts, and you're in large company, can say in all honesty that they are being objective?

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood things all along, and no one is claiming to be objective.

 

Please, if someone can, help me understand.

It has always puzzled me how so many earthlings can speak day after day throughout their entire lives, clearly in subjective fashion, and all the while be convinced that they are being objective, while a small portion of people who are no closer to all the answers either, aim at objectivity, but tend to be by the masses, discouraged for doing so.

 

Why is it that objectivity is so out of favor by the majority?

 

Faith is fine, but when it's forever presented as cold hard truth, that's when it would appear to some smaller amounts of people as bordering the delusional.

 

No matter where we all stand, everyone would like to arrive at some sort of tangible evidence of truth, but just because our desire is so strong doesn't mean that repeating long held human created concepts today makes them any more valid than they were when created by humans years ago.

 

We can't simply create the answer for the question of the ultimate truth by uttering what we might hope that it is. Speaking time and again, long held concepts does not give concrete validation to these long held concepts just because it's what we'd like to, or feel we must believe.

 

I get that we all have a sense of hope, but where in that hope does our objective mind get nudged out to only be left with mythical thoughts that we hold in such high regard as being the ultimate explanation, that century after century has never come any closer to than the last in making any valid sense of?

 

Humanity carries man-made concepts from generation to generation, all the while marking them as indisputable truth, all the while these concepts vary from religion to religion, all convinced that their religion is the one true religion that holds the ultimate truth.

 

This is not meant to cut anyone down for having a belief, or even suggest that there's anything wrong with that, but just an honest objective critical examination that begs to question how the proponents of these concepts, and you're in large company, can say in all honesty that they are being objective?

 

Perhaps I've misunderstood things all along, and no one is claiming to be objective.

 

Please, if someone can, help me understand.

 

You either believe or you don't, that it your choice. Faith is personal...you either have it, seek it or you don't.

 

As far as "Cold Hard Truth", the Bible is pretty clear that we will never have all of the answers that we seek.

 

Not to sound corny, but Faith isn't believing in only what we can see, hold, touch or quantify. It is believing that there is more out there. It's knowing that we don't have all of the answers and it's believing in what will be.

Even so, there's no denying there are those in this world that haven't been given the opportunity to know Jesus. How can God exclude those who haven't even been given that choice?

 

IF you get ten experts in a room you may get ten different answers. I trust that God is fair and he will handle it in a fair way. No one can give a definite answer to this issue, but it is discussed in many different circles.

"Faith is fine, but when it's forever presented as cold hard truth, that's when it would appear to some smaller amounts of people as bordering the delusional".

 

Not sure how else you would have them present it, otherwise it would not be faith, would it?

B ball fan reads like C S Lewis in Mere Christianity ( meaning he flew over my head ) . Maybe I should slow down and read it with my mind a bit clearer .

B ball fan reads like C S Lewis in Mere Christianity ( meaning he flew over my head ) . Maybe I should slow down and read it with my mind a bit clearer .

 

I'll take your word for it.

 

I just can't do it. :lol2:

I believe it's possible for non-Christians who have not received the Gospel to go to Heaven. I will have to talk to my Pastor but there is some scripture that I believe touches on this as well. However, I don't believe it's possible for ME to go without being saved and having Jesus as my Savior because I KNOW the truth and been exposed to the Gospel and have no excuse what so ever.

Why does Man need to be saved? It's clear that there are humans that have veered far off the beaten path of acceptable behavior towards their fellow man(See ISIS or Hitler or Bill Cosby, for example). Did God create the world knowing that he would have to save the whole world from their sinful ways? Did he create just to save it? Sounds like an incredible narcissist. Why did my little old grandad, who never said an ill word to anyone throughout his 94 yrs, need to be saved? Saved from what? From my reading of the OT, the only thing folks need to be protected from is an angry, vengeful, bloodthirsty God. If there is a God I would hope that He is different from the one portrayed throughout the OT. Just don't really understand the whole salvation thing. Bet you don't really have a grasp on it either. How could you?

Why does Man need to be saved? It's clear that there are humans that have veered far off the beaten path of acceptable behavior towards their fellow man(See ISIS or Hitler or Bill Cosby, for example). Did God create the world knowing that he would have to save the whole world from their sinful ways? Did he create just to save it? Sounds like an incredible narcissist. Why did my little old grandad, who never said an ill word to anyone throughout his 94 yrs, need to be saved? Saved from what? From my reading of the OT, the only thing folks need to be protected from is an angry, vengeful, bloodthirsty God. If there is a God I would hope that He is different from the one portrayed throughout the OT. Just don't really understand the whole salvation thing. Bet you don't really have a grasp on it either. How could you?

 

Wait. Did you really just compare Bill Cosby to ISIS and Hitler?! :facepalm: