Saw this type of thread on another site and got my mind going . I probably should know the answers more firmly but maybe this will generate some discussion .

Can a person want to be saved but because they are not chosen not be able to be saved ? It seems clear God calls some to saved and some not , but is it possible to desire to be saved but not elected ? ( to me that goes totally against the nature of the God I know )

Secondly if a person claims to be saved never overcomes any sin in his/her life are they really saved ? If the Holy Spirit is truly in a person then some repentance should be obvious - right ? If a person prays against a sin in their life but never overcomes it is that a sign that they may not be saved ? I know salvation is a matter of the heart and a matter of faith so its hard to clearly rule on such matters . To me , salvation is present when fruit is present. if you produce zero fruit and have not an ounce of change in your life then you probably are not saved .

1. "Can a person want to be saved but because they are not chosen not be able to be saved?"

 

I don't think there is any question about this one: ANYone can be saved who genuinely seeks God. He "is not willing that any should perish."

 

2. If a person claims to be saved never overcomes any sin in his/her life are they really saved?

 

If you meant to say "a" sin, I would think they can. Many people struggle with an addiction, even though they continually pray for deliverance.

 

If you meant to say "any" sin, I would think not. Titus 1:15-16 says "To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work."

 

As always, only God can know. 1 Samuel 16:7b says, "the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

I'm pretty sure that I am as saved as the next guy.

Everyone knows your an atheist , thats fine , no need for the constant advertising.

This is a VERY interesting discussion, to me, seeing as many of the debates I've had with Protestants has been the difference in the Protestant concept of being saved versus the Catholic concept of confession/reconciliation and the forgiveness of sins.

 

The longest debate I had was with a good friend of mine - a Protestant - after reading a headline about a Protestant minister somewhere being caught for trying to contract someone to kill his wife. I asked, "If that minister had already been saved, then do Protestant teachings generally say that he is still saved - even after he tried to hire someone to kill his wife? Or is there a degree of making things right with God that has to take place there (à la - reconciliation)."

 

Made for a very involved debate.

Those who are not my people I will call my people, and he who was not beloved I will call beloved. And in the very place where it was said to them, "you are not my people," there they shall be called children of the living God. Hosea 2:25.

 

I just saw this thread, then was paroozing my bible and stumbled over that. True story.

 

I think everyone on earth is among God's chosen people. I don't think everyone on earth accepts that, though.

 

And FWIW, I honestly believe that all morally sound people will be granted salvation. If a person is good, then they have God working in them, regardless of what they were taught to believe.

Mark 16:15-"if you believe and are baptized you will be saved"

Question is what does believe mean? Does it mean to simply agree or dies it require a lifestyle change.

 

 

If a person is good, then they have God working in them, regardless of what they were taught to believe.

 

I worry a little about that thought. I do not think anyone is "good," Not even christian preachers. I sin everyday. If I had to count on being good to be saved, I would be terrified.

Never be fooled into thinking simple belief will save you -- James 2:19 .... "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!" . And I think we can all agree that demons are not saved .

And to thrillville -- moral goodness isn't going to cut it . One single sin is enough to damn a soul to hell forever without Jesus being in our place at judgement . No one is good enough .

Mark 16:15-"if you believe and are baptized you will be saved"

Question is what does believe mean? Does it mean to simply agree or dies it require a lifestyle change.

 

 

 

 

I worry a little about that thought. I do not think anyone is "good," Not even christian preachers. I sin everyday. If I had to count on being good to be saved, I would be terrified.

 

Right, we are all sinners. I think if people are aware of the sin, and strive overcome the tendency to sin, then you are morally sound. I guess a "good" person would strive to make themselves better.

 

As far as who is saved, well I'm glad that God is merciful, because we don't deserve it.

And to thrillville -- moral goodness isn't going to cut it . One single sin is enough to damn a soul to hell forever without Jesus being in our place at judgement . No one is good enough .

 

If that sin were to completely separate yourself from God, then absolutely.

 

I do think God would have to take into consideration whether someone is morally sound though. There are plenty of people in the world who are non-religious, or worship a different god because of their upbringing.

 

I have a hard time believing that God will look upon them at their judgment and yank the lever because of that.

 

After all, I'm Catholic Christian through Grace, and the fact that my parents are catholic, their parents were catholic, their parents were catholic etc.

I do think God would have to take into consideration whether someone is morally sound though. There are plenty of people in the world who are non-religious, or worship a different god because of their upbringing.

 

I have a hard time believing that God will look upon them at their judgment and yank the lever because of that.

 

.

 

Very good point. People in all circles debate this issue. I too kind of think it is unfair for God to hold someone to a standard that they were never taught existed. But the thing is, if God decides that those type people are going to heaven, it is still because Jesus died on the cross.

I believe anyone who wants to be saved, is saved.

 

I also believe that it doesn't necessarily have to be the way many on here believe. If a person is born in some remote village in the Middle East, and all they know is Islam, they're raised on Islam, and go their entire life praising Allah, I truly believe they'll be saved when judgment day comes if they lived their live as a good loving, compassionate individual. The genetic and geographical lottery doesn't play into salvation IMO.

Can a person want to be saved but because they are not chosen not be able to be saved ? It seems clear God calls some to saved and some not , but is it possible to desire to be saved but not elected ? .

 

Recently had a discussion about this with a buddy in the office. Evidently there is a very conservative Calvinists belief, and we have a guy in the office who believes/follows this...that only a few people have been chosen by God to be saved and go to Heaven. And that no matter what, if you aren't one of the chosen, then you won't go, no matter what you have done or believe. So with that said, there are "Christians" that believe everyone can't be saved. The bible is full of information that refutes this, so I'm not sure where this belief comes from.

I believe anyone who wants to be saved, is saved.

 

I also believe that it doesn't necessarily have to be the way many on here believe. If a person is born in some remote village in the Middle East, and all they know is Islam, they're raised on Islam, and go their entire life praising Allah, I truly believe they'll be saved when judgment day comes if they lived their live as a good loving, compassionate individual. The genetic and geographical lottery doesn't play into salvation IMO.

 

UK MustangFan . I dont claim to be a biblical scholar and I dont know how a just God will judge that person, But I see next to nothing that supports that view from scripture . Humans do need to understand that God/JC/HS is/are perfect . One sin ( adam and eve) is enough to separate us forever in eternity from God . Scripture is crystal clear that humans cant be moral enough or good enough to gain entry into eternity with a perfect God without the blood of Jesus covering their sins . If you dont know or claim Jesus you are not getting in . To me , thats clear from scripture .