What about good coaches that develop good players? Who is the most responsible then?

What about good coaches that develop good players? Who is the most responsible then?

 

It's possible to lose a game and not be the coach's or the player's fault. Sometime the other team is better. What is frustrating to fans is seeing the same mistakes never corrected (multiple delay of game penalties each game, extra points being an adventure every game, lack of a team identity, etc). Those are the things that get a coach in hot water.

A good coach, a good feeder system, and his ability to recruit his school to get the best athletes will always work if given enough time.

 

 

The problem nowadays is administration won't give enough time to see a coach actually build a program to his specifications. You get 2 or 3 years and you are done.

 

The Coach at Wayne County (Thompson) is a perfect example. Had Wayne fired him for 2 or 3 mediocre seasons they would never have had a couple deep playoff runs and even a State Runner-Up.

 

Look at Belfry's Coach Haywood as well. Belfry natives were restless in late 90's and 2001 and 2002 when the Pirates couldn't get past the Regional Finals. I don't think they ever got where they wanted him fired.. but there was some questioning. The Administration stood firm and Haywood began re-tooling his Feeder System. As a result since 2003 Belfry has 4 State Titles.. and the program who most thought couldn't reach the Semi-Finals has only failed to play in the Semi's only one time since. 11 out of 12 years in the Semi-Finals and of those 8 times they advanced to the Finals.

 

People...specifically administrations... have to learn that A) Sometimes it takes time to mold a program and B) Even once it is molded talent is cyclical at the HS level.

85% Player. 15% Coach

 

A great head coach won't win without talent. Sure, he might pull an upset or two here or there, but he won't have a "winning" program without some horses. A bad head coach can win with talent. Will probably lose games he shouldn't along the way and not beat anyone they weren't expected to in the first place, but he can have a "winning" program in spite of his shortcomings if the talent is there.

 

So, what's the most important? Well, if you buy in to what I have stated above, then a coach needs the talent there to mold and work with. Secondary to that, but I would say no less important, is to have a good coach that will use that talent in the most efficient and capable manner.

 

Which would I rather have? Well, since we are talking high school football here and schools pretty much have to play with what they got, give me the great coach. That way, whatever talent the school does have, be it bad, middling or good, I know he will get the most out of it, and no one is left wondering "what if".

 

Tom Larky is a GREAT COACH and he just got fired two bad seasons!!!! YOU GOT TO HAVE THE HORSES!!!!!!

I've said this once on here...it's more than both. It's the head coach, the assistants, the AD, the administration, the parents and the community. They all have to buy in to the head coaches ideas and plan. If these factors are not all in alignment it doesn't matter what the head football coach does. I've seen and experiences this first hand and I understand that it takes a lot to make a program successful...all these resignings and firings this year is due to what I mentioned above not being on the same page. The HFC usually ends being the fall guy. Just my 2 cents.

 

Not always...there are plenty of situations across this state that it doesn't matter who the head coach is they will not be successful due to the one or more of the stake holders that do not buy in. The answer to your original question lies in what I mentioned before...it takes all of them to win a championship at least to be in position to win a championship.

 

Agree, Trinity has been winning state titles long before beatty got there and they will long after he is gone.

I would also change "head coach" to "staff" and even AD and school district. You have to have the support to be a good coach. So when those "entitled parents" come knocking, your administration clearly backs the coach because they are on the same page.

 

I feel the staff has a huge impact. If you are talking about winning consistently, then yes, you need some talent. But is you're talking about reaching the team goals, the staff is a HUGE part of that. They must setup off season programs, influence kids to "buy in", they must motivate them when they really aren't feeling it, they must make them believe they can win when the odds are against them. I don't care how good your athletes are, you're eventually going to play someone with just as good or even better athletes. When that occurs, it's not the X's and O's that win on Friday night all the time, it's usually the mindset of the team that the staff has instilled in them since day one. The mindset that I will knock down any wall in my way. That I am good and I know it. That I know that I worked harder than the guy across from me all year and it comes down to this. All of that is coaching over time and it's a process. The good coaches are constantly working angles and engaging their team and their individuals to understand what motivates his team and what motivates the individuals on that team. Coaching is definitely teams skills and fundamentals, but the mental part (when all else is equal) it what makes a coach great and why a great coach is so important to a team.

 

I will also say that the question asks about being successful reaching a team's goals. Well in a lot of cases, those goals may not be just "winning state". Many coaches are VERY good and it has NOTHING to do with wins and losses. It's has to do with life lesson that are taught. Coaching is an extension of the class room. You can learn math, english and history inside the walls. You learn life lessons outside the wall and sports are a great place for that. A good coach will always identify a "teaching moment" and that goes way further in life than a win or loss. In my opinion, a high school coach should never be let go for their record.

I would also change "head coach" to "staff" and even AD and school district. You have to have the support to be a good coach. So when those "entitled parents" come knocking, your administration clearly backs the coach because they are on the same page.

 

I feel the staff has a huge impact. If you are talking about winning consistently, then yes, you need some talent. But is you're talking about reaching the team goals, the staff is a HUGE part of that. They must setup off season programs, influence kids to "buy in", they must motivate them when they really aren't feeling it, they must make them believe they can win when the odds are against them. I don't care how good your athletes are, you're eventually going to play someone with just as good or even better athletes. When that occurs, it's not the X's and O's that win on Friday night all the time, it's usually the mindset of the team that the staff has instilled in them since day one. The mindset that I will knock down any wall in my way. That I am good and I know it. That I know that I worked harder than the guy across from me all year and it comes down to this. All of that is coaching over time and it's a process. The good coaches are constantly working angles and engaging their team and their individuals to understand what motivates his team and what motivates the individuals on that team. Coaching is definitely teams skills and fundamentals, but the mental part (when all else is equal) it what makes a coach great and why a great coach is so important to a team.

 

I will also say that the question asks about being successful reaching a team's goals. Well in a lot of cases, those goals may not be just "winning state". Many coaches are VERY good and it has NOTHING to do with wins and losses. It's has to do with life lesson that are taught. Coaching is an extension of the class room. You can learn math, english and history inside the walls. You learn life lessons outside the wall and sports are a great place for that. A good coach will always identify a "teaching moment" and that goes way further in life than a win or loss. In my opinion, a high school coach should never be let go for their record.

 

I have a friend that coaches college ball he told me this story. He went into a school on a Wednesday recruiting so he ask t the head coach "coach I will be coming back later today to watch you all practice what time will you all be on the field?" Coach replies "oh we don't practice on Wednesdays"! That team is from one of the surrounding states to us and they went undefeated and won the state championship!!!!! I wont tell you the kids that were on the team or you will know the school. But I will say PLAYERS and they win championships but I do believe a head coach and coaching staff is def a factor. But this coach hadn't done much before or since so I would say it was players.

I have a friend that coaches college ball he told me this story. He went into a school on a Wednesday recruiting so he ask t the head coach "coach I will be coming back later today to watch you all practice what time will you all be on the field?" Coach replies "oh we don't practice on Wednesdays"! That team is from one of the surrounding states to us and they went undefeated and won the state championship!!!!! I wont tell you the kids that were on the team or you will know the school. But I will say PLAYERS and they win championships but I do believe a head coach and coaching staff is def a factor. But this coach hadn't done much before or since so I would say it was players.

 

Two things. Have you ever come across a team that was loaded with talent and didn't win championships? And that coach may have been blessed with elite talent. But did that coach manage that taent? I can think many ky schools that had a ton of talent and did nothing close to a championship. Just look at the all state selections and teams. You hardly see any Highlands or Trinity kids on the lists! You see all kinds of other team kids on them and most of the time the justification is "well they have d1 offers!" Im not saying talent doesn't help, but even with talent, you must have leadership to manage that talent.

 

Also, the question is reaching team goals, not winning championships.

70% coaches 30% players

50/50, but I think some schools make it work 60/40 both ways. If you don't have the talent, and your opponent does, there isn't a whole lot you can do if that gap is wide enough.

 

Oh? You put your corner and safety in a great position? Cool, yeah, that WR has a sub 4.5 40. Your guys don't. He just scored. Again.

 

You have to be able to use the talent, but the talent has to be there. I believe somebody made a comment about coaches like Saban not staying at their first job for long. If you're the best race car driver in the world, you aren't going to win many races in a Ford Focus. Likewise, if you can't drive, have a Formula 1 car won't really make much of a difference.

I think it comes down to coaching when the talent is even, If their's is that much better than yours, then as a coach there is not alot you can do, there's a lot of schools in the state when the athletes just aren't there to compete at a high level, you can have a class comes through every few years that can compete but its hard to sustain no matter who the coach is. I may be wrong, but I heard that Dale Mueller even had a losing record at a school in Ohio, surely that guy can coach a little.

The head coach and his staff are as much as 75% of the success. There are many successful programs across this state that are in areas where "studs" aren't growing on trees. There are many programs in the state where athletes seem to be everywhere but fail to be competitive. A good staff will get the maximum out of the players they have. They are disciplined, set expectations for performance and effort, and hold the players and themselves accountable. Every school will have cycles of classes that are better than others, even the elite programs. The programs that continue to consistantly win are the ones with the better coaching staffs.

 

With that said, I do agree with Slinging Sammy that the AD and Administration can have a dramatic effect on the program in either a positive or negative way. Most cases it is a negative. There are alot of mediocre coaches in this state that will be at a school as long as they want because the administration wants them there. The adminstration of a school system should want their school to strive to be the best in everything, not just academics. The ones who don't care about being competitive, there are many in today's world, are doing a disservice to their district, their community, and most importantly their students.

Tom Larky is a GREAT COACH and he just got fired two bad seasons!!!! YOU GOT TO HAVE THE HORSES!!!!!!

 

And no other coach will probably do any better. In high school you don't get to pick and choose...you play with the "horses" you got. Give me a Tom Larkey and he will get everything out of the "horses" he has to work with.

Edited January 23, 201511 yr by BigVMan23

Perfect example of a coach(s) making a difference...look no further than Anderson County. Before Mark Peach arrived there 8 years or so ago, Anderson was essentially a door mat. In a few short years he turned the program around 180 and actually went to the 5A state championship game in 2011 and has been a serious contender in the 5A east for the past 5 years or so. And he's done it with no better overall talent than previous coaches had. Hard work, building the program from the youth leagues up, good staff, getting the community involved.

 

As a said before...who coaches the talent in high school is a choice...what talent the school has or doesn't have isn't. make a good choice at coach, you get the best the schools talent has to offer.

Biggest detriment for a coach is unrealistic/unknowledgeable parents. They undermine the coach at home to the players, they undermine the coach whining to the administration and they undermine the team by venting every frustration on social media.