We have our muddy field..... HHS has their illegal players.

 

Doesnt it all add up to being fair. LOL. JK.

 

 

You have to keep a sense of humor if you are going to be on here, that's for sure. With that in mind, we don't have any illegal players any more, so you can't have any muddy fields any more either:banana:

You have to keep a sense of humor if you are going to be on here, that's for sure. With that in mind, we don't have any illegal players any more, so you can't have any muddy fields any more either:banana:

 

:thumb:

 

I will make sure we turn off the sprinklers if HHS has to make a trip up to log mountain this season. :jump:

 

I am as passionate about Bell Co. football as any...... but at the same time, somethings just get waayyyyyy out of hand and you have to just laugh.

He didn't say it was OK because there weren't any rules against it. He said it was fair to do so. That isn't the same thing.

 

 

Isnt sayin "its ok because there arent any rules against it" essentially the same thing as saying "it is fair?" I think most would say it is!

 

I dont follow your logic here. What is the difference?

 

Now there is a difference in saying "its fair" and "its morally permissable." However, he didnt say that. He just said "it was fair," which IS the same as saying "its ok because there arent any rules against it."

OKAY, I admit watering your field down on purpose may not be right, but I was just comparing it to the fact that others point fingers at coaches for watering the field down. When in essence it was just wet, and by that time of year the field has taken so many beating that it isn't as good as the artificial surfaces that the NORTHERNers are used to, bottom line, is that it is used as an excuse. I still hear people say that if it hadn't rained in 2001 when Rock beat Cov Cath that Cov Cath would've won, well last thing I knew was that both teams had to play in it and it was a natural occurance. I agree stick1, the allegations get out of hand.

 

Hey, I understand where you're coming from. Part of the reason Lex Cath moved to the turf was because their old field was in such a soddy condition come playoffs w/ so many sports playing on it. I haven't played on Rock's field in quite some time and it was never muddy when I did but I remember it always being pretty torrn up. Plus, as you said, weather happens. My senior year every away game we had was played in mud from the rains.

If anyone cares to do some fact checking, log onto (weatherpages.com). You can look at the weather for any area for any previous dates. I looked up the middleboro/Piner area for the week leading up the the Nov. 26, 2004 game against the Bluebirds. From November 21st all the way through game day the 26th, temperatures were in the low to mid sixties during the day and there was zero percipitation for those six days. ZERO. So explain the sloppy field conditions now.

 

You can go to the web site and check it out yourself. Just type the city/state and zip you want to research then when the area comes up, just type in the desired dates. It will show you the exact weather conditions and percipitation totals for the area on the dates chosen.

 

And by the way, this is not posted as an excuse for the game. Remember, the Birds won, Mud and all. No excuses needed. Just stating facts.

If anyone cares to do some fact checking, log onto (weatherpages.com). You can look at the weather for any area for any previous dates. I looked up the middleboro/Piner area for the week leading up the the Nov. 26, 2004 game against the Bluebirds. From November 21st all the way through game day the 26th, temperatures were in the low to mid sixties during the day and there was zero percipitation for those six days. ZERO. So explain the sloppy field conditions now.

 

You can go to the web site and check it out yourself. Just type the city/state and zip you want to research then when the area comes up, just type in the desired dates. It will show you the exact weather conditions and percipitation totals for the area on the dates chosen.

 

And by the way, this is not posted as an excuse for the game. Remember, the Birds won, Mud and all. No excuses needed. Just stating facts.

 

Wow I don't have a dog in this one but that is one intense comeback.

You may just have won the award for most thoroughly research gauntlet ever thrown down in a single post in a leading role by a BGP'er

 

Either that or the entire mountain region may have to cry uncle in this edition of BGPMania due to the amazing submission hold you have put on them.

 

Totally awesome:thumb: - a thing of beauty :D

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

Isnt sayin "its ok because there arent any rules against it" essentially the same thing as saying "it is fair?" I think most would say it is!

 

I dont follow your logic here. What is the difference?

 

Now there is a difference in saying "its fair" and "its morally permissable." However, he didnt say that. He just said "it was fair," which IS the same as saying "its ok because there arent any rules against it."

You never follow my logic ... not my problem.

You never follow my logic ... not my problem.

 

I have followed your logic at times...... even admitting my mistakes.

 

However on this topic, I am pretty sure saying something "is fair" and saying "its ok because their are no rules against it" is pretty much the same thing.

 

If what you meant was saying "its fair" and "its morally permissable" are different then I totally follow your logic.

 

There are alot of things in sports that, according to the rules, is "fair." However they arent always the "morally right" thing to do even though they are technically "fair." I think that is what you were getting at.

If anyone cares to do some fact checking, log onto (weatherpages.com). You can look at the weather for any area for any previous dates. I looked up the middleboro/Piner area for the week leading up the the Nov. 26, 2004 game against the Bluebirds. From November 21st all the way through game day the 26th, temperatures were in the low to mid sixties during the day and there was zero percipitation for those six days. ZERO. So explain the sloppy field conditions now.

 

You can go to the web site and check it out yourself. Just type the city/state and zip you want to research then when the area comes up, just type in the desired dates. It will show you the exact weather conditions and percipitation totals for the area on the dates chosen.

 

And by the way, this is not posted as an excuse for the game. Remember, the Birds won, Mud and all. No excuses needed. Just stating facts.

 

Wow I don't have a dog in this one but that is one intense comeback.

You may just have won the award for most thoroughly research gauntlet ever thrown down in a single post in a leading role by a BGP'er

 

Either that or the entire mountain region may have to cry uncle in this edition of BGPMania due to the amazing submission hold you have put on them.

 

Totally awesome - a thing of beauty

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

 

I wouldnt get so excited just yet Woody. Curious where you are getting your info from DaBirdMan???

 

I did exactly as you instructed. Went to weatherpages, which had a link called Weather History/Archives. Went to the link and typed in Pineville, KY. The site then automatically linked me to this site:

 

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/K1A6/2004/11/21/DailyHistory.html

 

It was an almanac for the weather in Middlesboro, KY. I typed in the dates of Nov. 21, 2004-Nov 26, 2004. The interesting thing was there was no data or records available for any of these dates. If you scroll to the bottom of the webpage you will see in big bold red letters NO DATA AVAILABLE.

 

The link is right there if anyone wants to check it out to see if I am joshing. Unless they deleted that info within the last 24 hours then I'm inclined to wonder where you got the info DaBirdMan??? In a fit of excited haste I think you may have read the data on that webpage wrong DaBirdMan.

 

I know for a fact that it rained that week. But don't take my word.

 

For a more reliable source of information I went to two places, weather.com (the official site of theweatherchannel) and almanac.com (the official site of the old farmer's almanac, which interstingly enough, gets its info from the NOAA National Weather Service, the most accurate and reliable source of weather information in the United States).

 

According to weather.com the average high for Pineville, KY is 58 degrees and the average low is 34 degrees. The average percipitation for that month alone is 4.35 inches.

 

According to almanac.com the Middlesboro/Pineville area received 1.04 inches of precipitation the week of November 21, 2004-Nov 26, 2004. The majority of that came on Tuesday, Wendesday, and Thursday in which they received nearly an entire inch (.93) of precipitation, most of that being rain, but including rain/snow on that Thursday.

 

The old farmers almanac info. is right on track with the weather channels averages.

 

If you take that info, plus these facts:

 

1.) It was the next to last week of the season, meaning the wear and tear of the HS season was at its peak

2.) It undoubtedly rained throughout the season, including the week before (you can check the old farmers almanac for this info as as well)

3.) Bell Co. is a run dominated team, meaning the field would be in worse shape then other teams fields

4.) Due to natural springs and higher elevations the Bell Co. field does stay much softer then most

5.) Bell Co. uses their field to practice on, and although they do cover the field with a tarp when there is supposed to be heavy precipitation, a tarp only provides so much protection when you are having to roll the tarp off, practice on that field, and then roll the tarp back on.

6.) Middle school football games are played on the HS field throughout the season

 

It is easy to see why Bell Co's field could be in very very poor condition come November 26. I am not making excuses or accusing anyone of lying... just making sure all the facts are straight.

 

I know that when I was in HS we played several games on fields much much much worse then our own during the late season and playoffs. 2 come to mind off the top of my head (Knott Co. and Ashland; their fields were literally nothing but mud). Yet we didnt complain and it wasnt because we wanted to play in those conditions. We hated it.

 

The Bell Co. field in the 2004 game against HHS was not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be. It wasnt the best by any means, but it wasnt pure mud or water.

 

I know for a fact, by speaking to several of the coaches, that the last thing Bell Co wanted to do in their 2004 matchup against HHS was to neutralize their own speed by watering the field. I remember a specific coversation in which one of the coaches was very upset that it was raining and the field was in the shape it was because he felt that Bell could match HHS speed, and they wanted players such as Shawn Robbins and Brent Barton to be able to run and cut without the chance of slipping. As a matter of fact, the strength of the Bell offense was the speed of Robbins, and the strength of the Bell defense was their overall team speed. Whether the Bell staff was right in believing this or not, I dont know, but it doesnt matter really. The coaches didnt want the field wet or muddy, so why would they water it?

 

My point in this entire rant is that most of this is completely ridiculous rumors that have gotten waaaayyyyyyy out of hand.

 

1.) Bell Co. does not water its field down

2.) Bell Co. does not want to water its field down

3.) Bell Co. does not have 2 inch spike cleats stored away for games when they do water their field down (because they dont)

4.) Bell Co. does not purposely leave the tarp off the field when it rains

5.) etc etc etc etc

 

Having said all that..... I will tell Dudley to turn the sprinklers off this season! Just make sure HHS doesn't have any illegal players! :thumb: JK

Also DaBirdMan.... on a sidenote:

 

I noticed you said that the temperatures for that week according to weatherpages.com were in the low to mid sixties.

 

Those would be unseasonably high for that time of year. Anyone who has lived in Bell Co knows that in late November the temperatures usually range somewhere between low 40's to low 50's, just as the weather channel averages show.

 

The fact that that webpage said the average temperature was 65 degrees and their was 0 precipitation that week should have been a big warning sign that something was wrong with that webpage, and that there was no actual data available as indicated at the bottom of the webpage. I can't remember anytime in late November when the temperatures were in the mid 60's in Bell Co or that it didnt rain a drop.

I understand that is harder to communicate through written word that verbal communication, but what I meant was that it is fair to do that. Can you justify why it isn't? Now do I agree with it and think that it should be done done? No. However, it is their field.

 

 

I've been reading this debate. I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that stance.

 

To me, it is not fair nor is it ethical.

 

What nature does to a field is one thing. What humans do in an effort to "gain an edge" is another. It would be the same as a team using illegal cleats in an quagmire to get an edge. Now if both played with the same cleats that would be an equalizer.

 

I don't buy the "it is their field" notion. The field is the site of an athletic competition in which everyone is to do their best to create a level playing field for everyone to compete and allow the team playing its best to prevail. I could be mistaken but the home team supplies the referee crew as well. Suppose they found a crew that was loaded with sympathetic friends of the home team. (That doesn't happen now but it did in some places 30 or more years ago) With the same notion you could say, "Well, it's their choice for ref so it's fair if they get a crew that has a bias."

 

I have seen it become a factor on more than one occasion in both KY and VA. In both instances, slower power teams were facing quicker squads that had attacks built on attacking the edges and spreading the field. When these fields were deliberately "watered down" the balance of competition was swung. When God makes it rain or snow, that's life. When others do it by artificial means; that's cheating in my book.

 

Just my take.

I wouldnt get so excited just yet Woody. Curious where you are getting your info from DaBirdMan??? JK

 

Thats OK I just got a chuckle over how detailed this "debate" has gotten. Figured I would try & bring some humor to the thread.

We've had some of the same type logic, or lack thereof, presented by our opponents in the past [NO particular school, coach, administrator, mascot, or school custodian is being insinuated in this posting. I don't want anyone assuming that I talking about them - Please, I'm simply responding to ubc14]

 

P.S., ukbell14 has just been named as the winner of the Most Thoroughly Researched Comeback in a Defensive Mode (MTRCDM) as a BGP'er for his response to DaBirdman's initial post which by now everyone probably knows was the winner of the MTRGETD (Most Thoroughly Researched Gauntlet Ever Thrown Down) in a single post in a leading role by a BGP'er.

 

The utterly unillustrious committee of BGPMania has officially declared a draw for the title between the Mountain region and No. KY region in the Most Throroughly Researched Posting Division (MTRPD). There will be a rematch at a date to be determined probably sometime around Thanksgiving '07 unless a team from Northeastern KY can prevail in a Preliminary PostOff the week before

 

Hope everyone has a nice day. I can't make it so hope everyone gets out to support the Cats at the Blue-White game and in baseball against So. Carolina today & tomorrow. :thumb:

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

What nature does to a field is one thing. What humans do in an effort to "gain an edge" is another. It would be the same as a team using illegal cleats in an quagmire to get an edge. Now if both played with the same cleats that would be an equalizer.

 

I don't buy the "it is their field" notion. The field is the site of an athletic competition in which everyone is to do their best to create a level playing field for everyone to compete and allow the team playing its best to prevail. I could be mistaken but the home team supplies the referee crew as well. Suppose they found a crew that was loaded with sympathetic friends of the home team. (That doesn't happen now but it did in some places 30 or more years ago) With the same notion you could say, "Well, it's their choice for ref so it's fair if they get a crew that has a bias."

.

 

My understanding is that the referees association(or commissioner?) assigns the referees for all games [at least in the Ashland area they do]. I think? that coaches may have a "blackball" or two they can announce before the season if there is a ref or 2 they prefer not to have in their games. That should be the extent of a coach or schools ability to determine who wears the striped shirt IMO.

Although we "did" have a visiting coach lodge a complaint about assigned officials in the past and demanded they be changed - coincidently that coach ended up announcing that those refs call cost him the game .... ah the irony of it all

 

Perhaps it's karma that those who obsess and unecessarilly complain the most about these petty type things are the ones who end up playing on wet, muddy fields, ref's they don't like, etc. ???

 

Sidenote: you are welcome to ride with us to Ironton, OH every other year where they choose who they want to referee each game. Thats a real comforting situation. I'm NOT questioning Ironton's ability - they always have great teams & I enjoy watching them play, even if we are on the other side of the scoreboard

 

As far as football fields, I know Ashland has a small group of VERY dedicated individuals who invest a LOT, I mean a LOT of their own time into taking care of the Doug Childers Field @ historic Putnam Stadium. It's traditionally one of the nicest, well kept fields around. (there was even a post elsewhere by a No. KY player who listed it as one of his favorite fields to play on). These caretakers obsess over the fields condition all year round and yet don't begrudge our numerous JFL teams playing EVERY game on it, plus 7th grade, 8th grade, freshmen games AND the varsity games. And when the playoffs arrive, they are right out there painting the maroon & white checkerboard & big A in the center of the field. We enjoy & take pride in a nice field but some seasons the combinations of weather and all that traffic can do a lot of damage to God's green carpet. I'm pretty sure other schools have devoted fans who do their best with the field they've been given too:thumb:

 

If a team loses a game because of field conditions then they just weren't a good enough team - end of story.

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

UK, if you follow the simple instructions I gave in my previous post, it is very easy to find the archived weather data. If you find it too difficult, that is a problem for you. Try again and this time try typing more slowly. I typed this post very, very slowly so you would be able to understand it.

UK, if you follow the simple instructions I gave in my previous post, it is very easy to find the archived weather data. If you find it too difficult, that is a problem for you. Try again and this time try typing more slowly. I typed this post very, very slowly so you would be able to understand it.

 

First off.... I dont appreciate your arrogant tone, nor the fact that you want to insult my intelligence and computer savy. However, thats your own issue. If it makes you feel that much better about yourself then go ahead, take all the shots you want. I am pretty thick skinned, and you taking shots at my poorly educated eastern ky mind isn't going to change the fact that: I followed your simple instructions (which were actually very bad instructions lacking much needed detail) and there is no archived weather data for November 21-26, 2004 in Middlesboro/Pineville, KY.

 

The actual instructions should have been described as follows:

 

1.) Go to weatherpages.com.

2.) Click the link titled Weather History and Archives located 1/2 way down the page and written in bold, blue, underlined type.

3.) Scroll to the bottom of the linked webpage and type in Pineville, KY then hit the Go button to search that city.

4.) You will be linked to a new popup webpage for the current weather in Pinville, KY. About 1/2 way down the page is a section entitled History and Almanac. In this section of the page you can select any historical date. Select any date between November 21-26, 2004 and select the Go button to search that date.

5.) This will then take you to a linked webpage entitled History for Middlesboro, KY on Sunday, November 21, 2004 (or whatever date you selected)

6.) Then scroll to the bottom of that page and you will see in big, bold, red type "NO DATA AVAILABLE." You can check any of the dates between November 21-26, 2004. They all say "NO DATA AVAILABLE."

 

I was sure to be very specific in my instructions, but if anyone wants to just skip all that mess and go right to the webpage, here is the link (the link in my previous post can no longer be retrieved so you will need to use this link):

 

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/K1A6/2004/11/21/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

Once again..... I stand by my previous comments. The Weather Channel and the Farmers Almanac are much more reliable sources of historical weather data and there archived info can be found in my last post. Considering all this, and the fact that the source you (DaBirdMan) cited doesnt even exist, I am inclined to believe the person who needs to be typing, reading, whatever more slowly would be you my friend.

 

For all the other BGPer's reading this, dont believe me; follow the instructions or click on the link and see for yourself.