In regards to the "Hands up, don't shoot", if you are going to protest, get it right. Autopsies, physical evidence and testimony have proven that his hands were not up.

 

Why let the truth get in the way of a talking point though, right?

 

TOTALLY AGREE captain. Tell the lie over and over and hope people believe it. I am totally fine with people saying "I can't breathe" - that is legitimate IMO. The "hands up, don't shoot" stuff is total nonsense...

In regards to the "Hands up, don't shoot", if you are going to protest, get it right. Autopsies, physical evidence and testimony have proven that his hands were not up.

 

Why let the truth get in the way of a talking point though, right?

 

 

That's the thing though, the people who support the "Hands up, don't shoot" movement feel that the autopsies, physical evidence and testimony are false and compromised and spurred the grand jury 's decision to not indict. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a visual pretty much meaning I don't trust the police.

 

And before anyone starts in on me about all of this let me state for the record that I still have yet to truly state all of my thoughts and feelings on this case and all I am doing is sharing what "Hands up, don't shoot" means IMO. It goes far beyond people simply believing that Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot. This is people saying I don't trust the system. I think people keep missing that point.

In regards to the "Hands up, don't shoot", if you are going to protest, get it right. Autopsies, physical evidence and testimony have proven that his hands were not up.

 

Why let the truth get in the way of a talking point though, right?

 

 

I think that many people involved in the debate about Michael Brown aren't saying he was a saint or that he was entirely innocent. I think their point is more of a let's talk about, "why it seems that black people are more likely to die from an encounter with police than everyone else?"

 

Agree that everyone doesn't see it that way, but the point that many of the NBA players seem to be making with the whole "I Can't Breathe" shirt thing appears to me as much less of a "why didn't they let Eric Garner just illegally sell cigarettes?" and more of what I mentioned above.

 

Obviously, the Michael Brown incident got tons of national attention because of what was claimed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that just because the part that made the entire thing a powder keg was untrue, that once the situation escalated to the point that it did, that there weren't things that each side could still discuss.

I think that many people involved in the debate about Michael Brown aren't saying he was a saint or that he was entirely innocent. I think their point is more of a let's talk about, "why it seems that black people are more likely to die from an encounter with police than everyone else?"

 

Agree that everyone doesn't see it that way, but the point that many of the NBA players seem to be making with the whole "I Can't Breathe" shirt thing appears to me as much less of a "why didn't they let Eric Garner just illegally sell cigarettes?" and more of what I mentioned above.

 

Obviously, the Michael Brown incident got tons of national attention because of what was claimed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that just because the part that made the entire thing a powder keg was untrue, that once the situation escalated to the point that it did, that there weren't things that each side could still discuss.

 

You know almost three times as many whites are shot by the police than blacks, right?

 

Yes there is a problem...a crime problem...a perception problem...a communication problem. That discussion should not start on a lie such as "Hands Up" Most of the police officers that I know are more upset by that narrative that makes it seem as if he was executed Al-Qaeda style in the street.

 

If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie, Ferguson doesn't burn. If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie, people actually look at the facts of the case. If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie 20+ business owners still have businesses that provide services and jobs to that community.

 

Ironic thing is that if he had actually put his "hands up" to begin with...none of this would have happened.

You know almost three times as many whites are shot by the police than blacks, right?

 

Yes there is a problem...a crime problem...a perception problem...a communication problem. That discussion should not start on a lie such as "Hands Up" Most of the police officers that I know are more upset by that narrative that makes it seem as if he was executed Al-Qaeda style in the street.

 

If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie, Ferguson doesn't burn. If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie, people actually look at the facts of the case. If Dorian Johnson doesn't perpetuate that lie 20+ business owners still have businesses that provide services and jobs to that community.

 

Ironic thing is that if he had actually put his "hands up" to begin with...none of this would have happened.

 

Fair and I think you make very good points. The only thing I'd disagree with is that while there may be 3x as many white people shot by police than blacks, that there is also a significant amount by which whites outnumber everyone else.

 

Also, I could be wrong about this, but I think that part of the problem with these stats is that the reporting isn't consistent so we might not have the full picture of what's going on. What I mean by that is how stats as a whole are collected and compiled and whether or not all cases are reported to an agency that aggregates the total stastics.

Fair and I think you make very good points. The only thing I'd disagree with is that while there may be 3x as many white people shot by police than blacks, that there is also a significant amount by which whites outnumber everyone else.

 

Also, I could be wrong about this, but I think that part of the problem with these stats is that the reporting isn't consistent so we might not have the full picture of what's going on. What I mean by that is how stats as a whole are collected and compiled and whether or not all cases are reported to an agency that aggregates the total stastics.

 

I think when I saw that number it was from the FBI yearly crime report.

 

1/2 of all murder victims in the US are black though blacks make up only around 13% of the population. Yet less than one fourth of those shot by the police are black.

That's the thing though, the people who support the "Hands up, don't shoot" movement feel that the autopsies, physical evidence and testimony are false and compromised and spurred the grand jury 's decision to not indict. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a visual pretty much meaning I don't trust the police.

 

And before anyone starts in on me about all of this let me state for the record that I still have yet to truly state all of my thoughts and feelings on this case and all I am doing is sharing what "Hands up, don't shoot" means IMO. It goes far beyond people simply believing that Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot. This is people saying I don't trust the system. I think people keep missing that point.

I understand what the meaning is but every movement has a face. That face for "Hands up, don't shoot" is Michael Brown. Those behind the movement picked a bad poster child. It costs them credibility and does nothing for their cause. People see "Hands up, don't shoot" they think Michael Brown and like I've said before, the message is lost.

That's the thing though, the people who support the "Hands up, don't shoot" movement feel that the autopsies, physical evidence and testimony are false and compromised and spurred the grand jury 's decision to not indict. "Hands up, don't shoot" is a visual pretty much meaning I don't trust the police.

 

And before anyone starts in on me about all of this let me state for the record that I still have yet to truly state all of my thoughts and feelings on this case and all I am doing is sharing what "Hands up, don't shoot" means IMO. It goes far beyond people simply believing that Michael Brown had his hands up when he was shot. This is people saying I don't trust the system. I think people keep missing that point.

 

As far as what you bolded, 3 autopsies, one state, one federal, one private all came to the same conclusion. That's what I mean. I understand some people are never going to believe anything other than what they have made their mind up to, regardless of the evidence.

 

I deal with plenty of people from all races that don't trust the police. I truly don't feel blacks have a corner on that market.

 

As far as trusting the system, I deal with plenty of people from all races that think the system is stacked against them.

 

With all that said, all of us have to continue to work towards better race relations. While I agree that some things are all about race, all things are not always about race.

I think when I saw that number it was from the FBI yearly crime report.

 

1/2 of all murder victims in the US are black though blacks make up only around 13% of the population. Yet less than one fourth of those shot by the police are black.

 

 

 

Here's a report that shows that young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by police than their white counterparts. 21 times more likely. It also notes how incomplete the FBI database is in regards to police involved shootings.

 

Deadly Force, in Black and White - ProPublica

Here's a report that shows that young black males are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed by police than their white counterparts. 21 times more likely. It also notes how incomplete the FBI database is in regards to police involved shootings.

 

Deadly Force, in Black and White - ProPublica

Do you think that number is 100% on police?

Do you think that number is 100% on police?

 

I simply gave a statistic. It speaks for itself. Young black men are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than young white men even though they make up less than 15% of the population.

 

Do you think that young black males are 21 times more likely to need to be shot by police?

 

And even if it is only 1% on police that is 1% too much. People shouldn't die in because of their skin color.

I simply gave a statistic. It speaks for itself. Young black men are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than young white men even though they make up less than 15% of the population.

 

Do you think that young black males are 21 times more likely to need to be shot by police?

 

And even if it is only 1% on police that is 1% too much. People shouldn't die in because of their skin color.

You think police are shooting them because they are black or because of the situations they are putting themselves in?

 

They are also more much likely to be murdered.

Of All Citizens 20-24 in 2013

756 whites were murdered

1,438 blacks were murdered

 

899 whites committed murder

1,524 blacks committed murder

 

Point being Blacks are dieing a higher rate in all areas of homocides, not just encounters with the police.

 

Black officers account for a little more than 10 percent of all fatal police shootings. Of those they kill, though, 78 percent were black.

 

White officers killed 91 percent of the whites who died at the hands of police. And they were responsible for 68 percent of the people of color killed. Those people of color represented 46 percent of all those killed by white officers.-It's not a Black White Issue it is a Crime Issue.

 

This isn't the 30's or even the 60's where people were lynched with the assistance of crooked cops...this is 2014 and people need to take responsibility for their actions and quit making excuses for poor behavior.

You think police are shooting them because they are black or because of the situations they are putting themselves in?

 

They are also more much likely to be murdered.

Of All Citizens 20-24 in 2013

756 whites were murdered

1,438 blacks were murdered

 

899 whites committed murder

1,524 blacks committed murder

 

Point being Blacks are dieing a higher rate in all areas of homocides, not just encounters with the police.

 

Black officers account for a little more than 10 percent of all fatal police shootings. Of those they kill, though, 78 percent were black.

 

White officers killed 91 percent of the whites who died at the hands of police. And they were responsible for 68 percent of the people of color killed. Those people of color represented 46 percent of all those killed by white officers.-It's not a Black White Issue it is a Crime Issue.

 

This isn't the 30's or even the 60's where people were lynched with the assistance of crooked cops...this is 2014 and people need to take responsibility for their actions and quit making excuses for poor behavior.

 

Could it also be that police officers are more likely to assume bad intentions on the part of blacks and are quicker to use deadly force?

Could it also be that police officers are more likely to assume bad intentions on the part of blacks and are quicker to use deadly force?

 

You can make any inference YOU want. I think I know how you feel on this subject.

 

Police Officers are trained to assume bad intentions of everyone they do not know...regardless of race, age or sex.

Around 600 people are killed by the police each year, they come in contact with and arrest millions and millions. Police shootings are outliers not the normal day to day way to do business.

 

Of 600 killed at the hands of police the number of truly un-justifed killings is minute and in almost every case prosecuted.

 

Criminals kill police officers at a much higher rate than the other way around and 100% of those killings are unjustified...but of course that doesn't matter. You hardly ever see anyone say that if just 1 dies it's too many.