I do not pray in private. Doesn't mean I haven't done it before (I have) or that I would go back to it (maybe).

 

I don't "unfriend" those on facebook who post Bible verses or get "super holy" on Easter and Christmas (when you won't see much Bible/Christianity out of them the other 363 days year). I don't unfollow folks on twitter for posting such stuff, either.

 

I was raised Catholic. My godfather is a priest. I have two paternal uncles who are deacons. My father was brought up in a seminary in Louisville.

 

My parents and younger brother still go to church every Sunday. I took my mom to the Crystal Cathedral as part of our vacation (she didn't realize it was within driving distance of where we were staying). Been to the National Cathedral as well as St. John's in Savannah, Georgia.

 

Does prayer work? I'd like to hope so. Many people believe so.

 

Of course, some people BELIEVE things because they can.

Not because they should.

Not because it's wrong.

Or right.

 

I'm driven more by facts than beliefs.

 

And the fact remains that you can:

- Pray silently (without moving your lips or audibly saying a word)

- Pray by yourself

 

You don't need a microphone or a group to pray. They do not go hand in hand (as much as some think it should).

 

Plus, Kentucky isn't exactly a freedom of religion type of place.

It's smack dab in the middle of the bible belt.

 

It's not freedom of religion. It's freedom to be Christian. In that, there's a huge difference.

 

The next public group prayer at a game or over the public-address intercom at said game that I attend that is in NO WAY/SHAPE/FORM related to Christianity ... will be the very first.

And my guess, won't go over well (if it is the only such occurrence at that game and nothing involving Christianity is allowed).

I do not pray in private. Doesn't mean I haven't done it before (I have) or that I would go back to it (maybe).

 

I don't "unfriend" those on facebook who post Bible verses or get "super holy" on Easter and Christmas (when you won't see much Bible/Christianity out of them the other 363 days year). I don't unfollow folks on twitter for posting such stuff, either.

 

I was raised Catholic. My godfather is a priest. I have two paternal uncles who are deacons. My father was brought up in a seminary in Louisville.

 

My parents and younger brother still go to church every Sunday. I took my mom to the Crystal Cathedral as part of our vacation (she didn't realize it was within driving distance of where we were staying). Been to the National Cathedral as well as St. John's in Savannah, Georgia.

 

Does prayer work? I'd like to hope so. Many people believe so.

 

Of course, some people BELIEVE things because they can.

Not because they should.

Not because it's wrong.

Or right.

 

I'm driven more by facts than beliefs.

 

And the fact remains that you can:

- Pray silently (without moving your lips or audibly saying a word)

- Pray by yourself

 

You don't need a microphone or a group to pray. They do not go hand in hand (as much as some think it should).

 

Plus, Kentucky isn't exactly a freedom of religion type of place.

It's smack dab in the middle of the bible belt.

 

It's not freedom of religion. It's freedom to be Christian. In that, there's a huge difference.

 

The next public group prayer at a game or over the public-address intercom at said game that I attend that is in NO WAY/SHAPE/FORM related to Christianity ... will be the very first.

And my guess, won't go over well (if it is the only such occurrence at that game and nothing involving Christianity is allowed).

 

I have read all your posts in this thread, thanks for being an island of reality.

 

A couple of points stand out to me from your posts, it's not freedom of religion, it's freedom to be Christian and you are absolutely right what the cheerleaders did is look at me attention seeking behavior.

I'm curious, did Jesus pray in public? Did he lead corporate prayer according to the gospels? How often?

 

Most of the instances I see there are in an intimate setting of teaching and/or small group. (Lord's Prayer, John 17,Gethsemane)

I'm driven more by facts than beliefs.

 

And the fact remains that you can:

- Pray silently (without moving your lips or audibly saying a word)

- Pray by yourself

 

You don't need a microphone or a group to pray. They do not go hand in hand (as much as some think it should).

 

 

I'm not arguing that you need those things to pray. Not remotely. My prayer time that is totally private is communication that is vital for my relationship with Christ who intercedes for me. However, not only is it not illegal to do what they did, it has zero to do with what you perceive as necessity for prayer. It's their right to do so, whether you or I or anyone else wants to join in, or if we think they're doing it for show. And while the latter may be true, I will argue that it's certainly not the case for everyone. IMO, there is power in corporate prayer. If prayer has any effect tow whatever degree you believe it does, how in the world would I not believe that the Creator of the Universe wouldn't hear one I spoke aloud? I commend them for exercising their faith even when those would try to oppress it.

I'm curious, did Jesus pray in public? Did he lead corporate prayer according to the gospels? How often?

 

Most of the instances I see there are in an intimate setting of teaching and/or small group. (Lord's Prayer, John 17,Gethsemane)

Are those private? How many constitutes public?

Jesus prayed a blessing when he fed the 5000 and the 4000. That is pretty public to me, although I don't think the microphone was working those days.

Are those private? How many constitutes public?

 

I think Jesus' teaching is just that, teaching. So teaching the Lord's Prayer is not in effect leading it. It was a Model Prayer more than just something to say repetitively or verbatim.

 

The other two I cited, John 17 is a personal prayer of Jesus in the Upper Room and it's shared in the witness of a closed group (his disciples). Gethsemane is also, an intimate prayer and not for public consumption. (At least that is how it appears to me in the Narrative)

 

I think we can deduce that "Corporate or Public Prayer" is a large body of people beyond a designated Worship Event. I think Corporate Prayer is important. But to what extent and is Jesus the life we cite to give it pre-eminence?

Jesus prayed a blessing when he fed the 5000 and the 4000. That is pretty public to me, although I don't think the microphone was working those days.

 

He prayed on the cross too.

Jesus prayed a blessing when he fed the 5000 and the 4000. That is pretty public to me, although I don't think the microphone was working those days.

 

Jesus blessed the food. I'm not sure his intent was for everyone to shut up and listen to his blessing. A Jewish blessing was traditional liturgy of thanks for God's bounty. But if you want to include that, sounds good. Very akin to what we are talking about.

 

But is a blessing and a prayer the same thing? I can see that they might be but not necessarily are.

 

So are there other ones I'm missing besides the blessing of the food?

He prayed on the cross too.

 

Not sure he was leading others to prayer there. He was speaking to God for himself. Does that constitute prayer?

Jesus blessed the food. I'm not sure his intent was for everyone to shut up and listen to his blessing. A Jewish blessing was traditional liturgy of thanks for God's bounty. But if you want to include that, sounds good. Very akin to what we are talking about.

 

But is a blessing and a prayer the same thing? I can see that they might be but not necessarily are.

 

So are there other ones I'm missing besides the blessing of the food?

 

Definition #1 from Merriam-Webster for "Blessing" - a prayer calling for divine care, protection, or favor

Does that constitute prayer?

 

What else would it be?

I have read all your posts in this thread, thanks for being an island of reality.

 

A couple of points stand out to me from your posts, it's not freedom of religion, it's freedom to be Christian and you are absolutely right what the cheerleaders did is look at me attention seeking behavior.

Yes, reality in a sea of non-reality.

Not sure he was leading others to prayer there. He was speaking to God for himself. Does that constitute prayer?

My argument above was to point out Christ prayed publicly. I'd say loaves, fish, 5000 would be public.

What else would it be?

 

Don't know. That's why I asked.