And that is what the girls did.

 

The original fire came from the cowardly bullies of the ACLU. They send a threatening letter and expect things to change - under threat. This is not unlike how a mobster works. Broken knees or lawsuit - coercion is coercion. And that is exactly the tactic employed by the ACLU in these cases.

 

Public institutions should respect the members of their community. If local citizens object - then take up the issue. But when the ACLU acts unilaterally - its just an out of state bully usually.

 

Isn't the ACLU's general model to react when someone locally asks them to? One person speaking against a mob doesn't get much of a chance of getting their grievances heard. The ACLU would do the same for you if your rights were being violated.

Isn't the ACLU's general model to react when someone locally asks them to? One person speaking against a mob doesn't get much of a chance of getting their grievances heard. The ACLU would do the same for you if your rights were being violated.

 

If they come in to help someone who does have a grievance then that would appropriate. I believe they use 'shake-down' tactics such as letters because they would have no standing in actual court without this. A local group or individuals would have standing in actual court. Its the tactic of sending a letter threatening an undesirable action that is RICO-type act.

Isn't the ACLU's general model to react when someone locally asks them to? One person speaking against a mob doesn't get much of a chance of getting their grievances heard. The ACLU would do the same for you if your rights were being violated.

 

Personally, I'd like a list of our civil liberties. You know, just so we could define what they really are.

So, if a group of students, during a moment of silence, stood immediately outside the boundary of the fence surrounding the field (and not on school property), and they prayed loudly enough and the crowd then followed, would it be similarly ruled honorable getslow?

 

At almost every one of the seven high schools I follow, that fence you mentioned is STILL on school property.

 

Only way a prayer like that happens at a football game in my area ... no one notices. Because once you get off school property, no one's gonna see you. And if you're at that part of the fence, no one's gonna hear you.

At almost every one of the seven high schools I follow, that fence you mentioned is STILL on school property.

 

Only way a prayer like that happens at a football game in my area ... no one notices. Because once you get off school property, no one's gonna see you. And if you're at that part of the fence, no one's gonna hear you.

And if a tree falls in the forest.......

I rarely, if ever, mention God or prayer for a sporting event.

 

- If you're gonna point to the sky following a TD, you better point toward the sky when you drop a pass, miss a kick, throw a pass into the dirt, blow a tackle or get your ankles broken by a RB, too. Because, you know, he's the same God whether you score in public or fail in public. Still the same guy above. You just didn't get your way in public.

 

- You're not gonna outpray X, T, DeSales, Holy Cross (either LOU or COV), Brossart, LexCath, O'Cath. That's what those schools do. Might as well stop trying. If you pray and they pray, they gonna win.

 

- Why do I rarely see group-led prayers before or after JV and freshman games BUT are much more likely to see them at varsity? Because they want people to notice, that's why. Same thing with starting lineups, public address, JROTC flag stuff. Also same reason homecoming is during a varsity football or basketball game and no other time ... because no one would notice/show up if some other time at some other place.

 

It's all about eyeballs.

 

Some of these same exact kids making sure they are part of these pregame/postgame group prayers are the same kids I'll see at malls, around town and especially on social media acting the complete opposite.

And if a tree falls in the forest.......

 

No one cares or writes about it. ... Unless that tree happens to block a road (see the end of "We Bought A Zoo).

 

If people wanna go off school property and pray before a game, go do it.

Good luck getting back in time for the game, though (because apparently all prayers must be done within 3 minutes of opening kickoff or on field less than 5 minutes after final whistle).

 

Them's unwritten rules you be messing with.

^ I get the publican speech, and agree. But as Hearsay pointed out, not illegal.

^ I get the publican speech, and agree. But as Hearsay pointed out, not illegal.

 

There are many things that are not illegal that might not be in the best interest of somebody or some people to do. Probably MORE things are legal than illegal, but you might not want to do them in regards to common sense and court of public opinion.

 

Two years ago, some of the studs at Rival School A somehow acquired their game uniforms during the week (wearing them outside of game setting or school setting is a no-no) and went to an assistant (volunteer, but still on sideline in coaching shirt) coach's. The coach, an avid hunter, let the players pose with some of his shotguns. Took a series of photos with the players posing with a dummy dressed in Rival School B apparel.

 

Photos were posted to a PUBLIC facebook group (which then, not surprisingly, were seen by Rival School B). When the teams faced off the following week, sparks flew.

 

Nothing illegal about it.

Not sure the ACLU has any authority in this.

But just because it's legal does NOT mean it was probably a bright idea.

 

To this day, I have parents and players from Rival School A who still defend their actions like they did nothing wrong.

There are many things that are not illegal that might not be in the best interest of somebody or some people to do. Probably MORE things are legal than illegal, but you might not want to do them in regards to common sense and court of public opinion.

 

Two years ago, some of the studs at Rival School A somehow acquired their game uniforms during the week (wearing them outside of game setting or school setting is a no-no) and went to an assistant (volunteer, but still on sideline in coaching shirt) coach's. The coach, an avid hunter, let the players pose with some of his shotguns. Took a series of photos with the players posing with a dummy dressed in Rival School B apparel.

 

Photos were posted to a PUBLIC facebook group (which then, not surprisingly, were seen by Rival School B). When the teams faced off the following week, sparks flew.

Nothing illegal about it.

Not sure the ACLU has any authority in this.

But just because it's legal does NOT mean it was probably a bright idea.

 

To this day, I have parents and players from Rival School A who still defend their actions like they did nothing wrong.

 

So, somehow you equate that with a prayer led by some cheerleaders? Really? I've seen stretches, but that would make this guy blush:

 

spindoc,

 

I'm not equating it.

I'm not saying it's equal.

 

Obviously, they are the same in the regard they are both legal (we think). Like there difference in illegal-ness (like driving 36 in a 35 and 70 in a 35; both speeding, but the latter gonna get you in serious trouble.

 

Some people are just willing to push the boundary of "no prayer public sporting/school events" as far as they can. With no regard to how it might be perceived. Darn it, we're gonna do it anyway.

 

Praying to draw attention to yourself/others has a fine line.

Just like the point-to-the-heavens after the TD players.

 

Because if you're REALLY that into God/Christianity, shouldn't you be willing to show/act like it at other times, too (like social media, not at games, when you drop a pass, etc.?)

I completely looked over what you typed, spindoc:

 

"So, if a group of students, during a moment of silence ... prayed loudly enough"

 

Why are you praying LOUDLY during a moment of SILENCE? Doesn't kind of, you know, defeat the purpose of SILENCE?

 

Tell me that's NOT trying to draw attention to yourself?

Look-at-me philosophy at work if it happens.

 

Don't care if they mean well. Silence means silence in that regard/scenario.

But here's the thing, we all have the right to pray. And pray to anyone/thing we want, constitutionally. With that said, I don't think the boundary is pushed with how far it can be portrayed by those who pray, but just the reverse. I think the boundary is being pushed upon those who exercise their right to prayer by those who would like to squelch all religious talk/prayer of any ilk, however veiled an attempt.

 

I'll ask again, can I get a list of my civil liberties? What are they exactly according to the ACLU?

 

 

I also don't disagree that often it's done for show. Christ even tells about those who pray like the publicans do. I get what you're saying. However, in the off chance that someone is genuine in their corporate prayer, do you really feel that they don't deserve that right? What about all the parents of the combatants on the gridiron praying for safety of their loved ones? Silly? Drawing attention?

But here's the thing, we all have the right to pray. And pray to anyone/thing we want, constitutionally. With that said, I don't think the boundary is pushed with how far it can be portrayed by those who pray, but just the reverse. I think the boundary is being pushed upon those who exercise their right to prayer by those who would like to squelch all religious talk/prayer of any ilk, however veiled an attempt.

 

I'll ask again, can I get a list of my civil liberties? What are they exactly according to the ACLU?

 

 

I also don't disagree that often it's done for show. Christ even tells about those who pray like the publicans do. I get what you're saying. However, in the off chance that someone is genuine in their corporate prayer, do you really feel that they don't deserve that right? What about all the parents of the combatants on the gridiron praying for safety of their loved ones? Silly? Drawing attention?

 

How come you do NOT see prayers like that before JV, freshman, rec/travel games? More likely than not, you'll see it at a varsity game before those other levels.

 

Do those same levels not deserve safety like the varsity?

 

Most games I go to have starting lineup (World cup style in soccer, baseball/softball on base lines, basketball does each team, usually with music before home team), national anthem and for some reason in big district/region tournaments, an invocation (but no other time. Hmm. Strange).

 

Go to a JV softball game after varsity and no starting lineup. No P.A. Probably no prayer (even though JV kids are varsity benchwarmers and were apart of a prayer just two hours before).

 

I'm sure the parents, coaches, administrators and players themselves want to be safe. That's not crazy.

 

But doing it loudly, over the intercom and in public is NOT MORE LIKELY to make it come true.

 

I've seen some kids suffer some horrific and bad injuries shortly after the pregame prayer.

 

Did the prayer not work? Did the prayer suck? God not paying attention?

Or did the prayer WORK because if it hadn't, the injuries would be WORSE?

 

Public prayer is a spectacle.

 

I hate it when folks make a big deal out of "Meet Me at the Pole" and other events or when people contact the media about a prayer/candle (vigil). I was plenty of them on twitter/facebook/instagram from the Harig/Taylor wrecks this summer in my area.

 

People wanted people to know publicly they were praying (or looking like they cared), by taking photos and selfies to prove it.

 

I liken it to the cheerleaders waiting til "See" in the first line of the national anthem and putting their hands over their heart in unison five words INTO the song. It's not about you. Do it BEFORE the song. Why are you intentionally drawing attention to yourself DURING the song?

 

You don't need a group to pray.

You don't need a mike/mic to pray.

You don't have to be in public to pray.

 

Yet folks think they have -- they NEED -- to combine the three.

 

Bad things will/can always happen to good people. That's unfortunate, but that's life.

 

And no amount of public praying before a game will change that.

How come you do NOT see prayers like that before JV, freshman, rec/travel games? More likely than not, you'll see it at a varsity game before those other levels.

 

Do those same levels not deserve safety like the varsity?

 

go to Boyd County HS and they pray before and after each of those contests

Most games I go to have starting lineup (World cup style in soccer, baseball/softball on base lines, basketball does each team, usually with music before home team), national anthem and for some reason in big district/region tournaments, an invocation (but no other time. Hmm. Strange).

 

Go to a JV softball game after varsity and no starting lineup. No P.A. Probably no prayer (even though JV kids are varsity benchwarmers and were apart of a prayer just two hours before).

 

Maybe they thought the prayer 2 hours ago that was allowed was sufficient for that one too.

I'm sure the parents, coaches, administrators and players themselves want to be safe. That's not crazy.

 

But doing it loudly, over the intercom and in public is NOT MORE LIKELY to make it come true.

 

I've seen some kids suffer some horrific and bad injuries shortly after the pregame prayer.

 

Did the prayer not work? Did the prayer suck? God not paying attention?

Or did the prayer WORK because if it hadn't, the injuries would be WORSE?

 

So, I assume you'd be diametrically opposed to the coach going over and praying over his injured player as well, considering it would be a spectacle unless he muttered it under his breath, because we don't want any attention to be drawn towards him, God forbid.

Public prayer is a spectacle.

 

Even when Jesus did it,,,,,,repeatedly?

I hate it when folks make a big deal out of "Meet Me at the Pole" and other events or when people contact the media about a prayer/candle (vigil). I was plenty of them on twitter/facebook/instagram from the Harig/Taylor wrecks this summer in my area.

 

Good, don't go.

People wanted people to know publicly they were praying (or looking like they cared), by taking photos and selfies to prove it.

 

some times showing that you care in this day of social media makes a difference in lives of those who believe.

I liken it to the cheerleaders waiting til "See" in the first line of the national anthem and putting their hands over their heart in unison five words INTO the song. It's not about you. Do it BEFORE the song. Why are you intentionally drawing attention to yourself DURING the song?

 

You don't need a group to pray.

You don't need a mike/mic to pray.

You don't have to be in public to pray.

 

Yet folks think they have -- they NEED -- to combine the three.

 

Bad things will/can always happen to good people. That's unfortunate, but that's life.

 

And no amount of public praying before a game will change that.

 

Perhaps, however, how many things are indeed sheltered because of the Lord's providence through the prayers of a mother or father or sister or brother, etc.? I suspect you will poo poo the thought that that's even possible. And some injuries are a blessing. I speak from experience. I have a suggestion, if you are offended, plop in those earbuds

 

Curious, do you pray in private?