To interject a related question:

 

Does anyone feel when there are times that someone, usually someone younger, can be "pushed" to becoming homosexual?

 

I mean this in the sense of a kid going through an awkward stage in their development such as puberty which is hard enough for some kids anyway. Before I go further, sorry for such stereotypical things, but you'll get my point soon, imagine that this kid is a boy who really enjoys something like acting in plays, gymnastics, and/or cheerleading, or a girl who enjoys hunting and/or sports that some typically associate as being "lesbian" sports.

 

As you might imagine, this kid will probably get a lot of grief from other kids, who will resort to calling them "gay" (or usually much worse). Kid hears this enough, and, even though they aren't really gay, starts to wonder, "maybe if everyone says this about me, I MUST actually be gay, I mean, everyone is saying it".

 

In essence, I would consider it to be a good possibility that this person just hears about what they are supposed to be so much that they begin to get conditioned to it and start acting in conformity with it because they think that's just how things are supposed to be.

 

This would be an example of a kid that I wouldn't consider being "born homosexual", but who might end up living that lifestyle (at least for a time).

 

Feel free to disagree, it's just something that I've wondered about in the past.

 

 

Also, for the record, I don't think that everyone who is homosexual is like this, nor am I stating any belief as to whether or not people are "born gay".

 

In all honesty, I think that "pray the gay away" camps are probably money rackets that end up doing more harm than good and could cause even more emotional strain on a kid who might already be going through enough as is.

 

Sorry to thread jack, I just thought this would be a good place to pose the question that I had because it's at least somewhat related to the topic of nature vs. nurture in the development of homosexual adolescents.

People who are gay believe they are born that way. They refuse to believe anything different. One thing that is a fact is that people can change and do everyday. I just refuse to believe God would allow a person to be born gay, but of course my opinion is worth as much as the next person.

 

Don't give yourself too much credit.

 

I thought they would have a vaccine to cure people of "the gay" by now. Or at least come up with "Gayzac" for a daily prescription.

It was discussed on another thread that in cases of prison or being stranded on an island someone could become gay if that was there only option...wouldn't/shouldn't the opposite be true as well? Strand a gay person and a straight person of opposite sex on an island, would it happen or not?

Edited June 25, 201412 yr by Jumper_Dad

This thread title reminds me of a great South Park episode.

 

Butters Arrives at Camp - Video Clips - South Park Studios

All sorts of things are possible... but shaming and mentally torturing some poor kid into thinking he or she is defective is damn near abusive.

 

Gay reparative therapy is scientifically unsound and completely disgusting.

 

That said... if a person is of age and WILLINGLY and INDEPENDENTLY elects to enter such a therapy, under that circumstance and that circumstance only can I see this being acceptable.

All sorts of things are possible... but shaming and mentally torturing some poor kid into thinking he or she is defective is damn near abusive.

Agreed!

All sorts of things are possible... but shaming and mentally torturing some poor kid into thinking he or she is defective is damn near abusive.

Gay reparative therapy is scientifically unsound and completely disgusting.

 

That said... if a person is of age and WILLINGLY and INDEPENDENTLY elects to enter such a therapy, under that circumstance and that circumstance only can I see this being acceptable.

 

 

'Near'???

To interject a related question:

 

Does anyone feel when there are times that someone, usually someone younger, can be "pushed" to becoming homosexual?

 

 

I few months ago in a thread, I mentioned I used to work with a non profit that treated girls who had experience abuse. For the girls who had be sexually abused by men, the percentage of them was much, much, much higher than the national percentage. I asked B-Ball-Fan if he felt abuse could turn a female born to be heterosexual to become homosexual. I believe B-Ball-Fan's answer was that while he had never read anything scientific about it, it certainly made sense and seemed plausible.

Reading through several threads on this subject it seems that some are born homosexual and some decide later to become homosexual due to external factors.

 

So it would seem that to an extent both sides are right.

Reading through several threads on this subject it seems that some are born homosexual and some decide later to become homosexual due to external factors.

 

So it would seem that to an extent both sides are right.

 

I mostly agree. I think it's more complicated and fluid than some of the stark, "black and white" aspects of the debate let on. There's plenty of psychological research that suggests sexuality is more of a scale from one end to the other rather than an either/or situation. And I imagine plenty of factors go into where someone lands (or moves) on that scale, including the interaction of innate traits and the environment/society.

 

With that said, I don't mean what I said to imply that homosexuals can be "cured" or should treated any differently than straight people.

Edited June 25, 201412 yr by Habib

To interject a related question:

 

Does anyone feel when there are times that someone, usually someone younger, can be "pushed" to becoming homosexual?

 

I mean this in the sense of a kid going through an awkward stage in their development such as puberty which is hard enough for some kids anyway. Before I go further, sorry for such stereotypical things, but you'll get my point soon, imagine that this kid is a boy who really enjoys something like acting in plays, gymnastics, and/or cheerleading, or a girl who enjoys hunting and/or sports that some typically associate as being "lesbian" sports.

 

As you might imagine, this kid will probably get a lot of grief from other kids, who will resort to calling them "gay" (or usually much worse). Kid hears this enough, and, even though they aren't really gay, starts to wonder, "maybe if everyone says this about me, I MUST actually be gay, I mean, everyone is saying it".

 

In essence, I would consider it to be a good possibility that this person just hears about what they are supposed to be so much that they begin to get conditioned to it and start acting in conformity with it because they think that's just how things are supposed to be.

 

This would be an example of a kid that I wouldn't consider being "born homosexual", but who might end up living that lifestyle (at least for a time).

 

Feel free to disagree, it's just something that I've wondered about in the past.

 

 

Also, for the record, I don't think that everyone who is homosexual is like this, nor am I stating any belief as to whether or not people are "born gay".

 

In all honesty, I think that "pray the gay away" camps are probably money rackets that end up doing more harm than good and could cause even more emotional strain on a kid who might already be going through enough as is.

 

Sorry to thread jack, I just thought this would be a good place to pose the question that I had because it's at least somewhat related to the topic of nature vs. nurture in the development of homosexual adolescents.

 

I appreciate your question and think that it is a very valid one.

 

As someone who's been exposed to a bit of collegiate level psychology with relationship to behavioral conditioning, I very much believe that environmental conditioning can and does play a significant role on a human's development, with said individual's own stimulus playing a factor within their own behavior as a reaction to whatever stimulus that they are exposed to throughout their lives, and especially in younger development.

 

I don't believe that a human is a blank slate and that they become everything that they are exposed to, but believe that what they are exposed to plays a strong factor in their early development. Toss in the individual's own voluntary or involuntary response to certain stimulus and you have all or most of the various components that factor into the formula that in return equals the individual's thought processes and behavior.

 

For example: If one is raised with bad eating and exercising habits, through reprogramming and reconditioning, health education, and great effort from said subject to hold steadfastly to creating new and better habits, they stand a chance to change and development better healthy habits while always remaining on guard for the bad habits to resurface, however the further away one gets from the bad habits, they help ensure that the new habits can become their new normal.

 

How many of us can relate to this when trying to maintain a better eating plan and exercise program? The more we stay on top of it, the better the results. Sometimes the winter months can threaten all that we've accomplished and we can at times find ourselves resorting back to bad habits out of laziness, and allowing ourselves to use the cold weather as an excuse to backslide with the promise that we'll do better when the spring time rolls around.

 

One's sexuality however is a much more difficult monster to pin down when it comes to figuring out how it came to be and/or changing it.

 

No doubt adolescence is an awkward stage for many kids, and for most, the beginning stages of what they find themselves attracted to that are very deep rooted within their mental/physical behavior before they even know what hit them.

 

There's little choice involved with how the body reacts to certain stimulus, but the adolescent becomes very aware that something is in fact stirring within themselves.

 

If it's of a heterosexual nature, then they typically, although at times awkward, will not have to succumb to any self image issues related to whether or not they are normal or not, however if the individual is feeling homosexual attractions, they very early realize that the feelings that they're feeling are not exactly in favor with society in general, and although they didn't choose it, they become very aware that it's in their best interest to not share their personal phenomenon with anyone for fear of ridicule and rejection.

 

History has shown that for the gay teen, a complex disturbing self-image ensues, and depending on that kid's family, friends, and church environment, they may live in fear or even a sort of self-hatred, however in more loving accepting circumstances, but less likely, a feeling that they can move forward confidently if they feel surrounded by understanding loved ones.

 

When the teen and college years come about, peers can and do add a significant factor to one's development with regard what is expected of them, or what their peers think of them, although the roots are already more likely firmly established within them, and usually much earlier.

 

There can be pressures for a gay teen to act out as straight, however difficult, with the hopes of saving face with their peers, and with the hopes that they themselves develop what they've been told their whole lives is the "normal" way to be.

 

On the flip side of that regarding your question, I too have feared that the new trendy acceptance in society towards homosexuality would play a counter-productive role in finding some straight kids experimenting with homosexuality simply because it seems like a trendy thing to do.

 

All I see this doing is sabotaging what gays have all along had hopes in a more broader understanding and acceptance. If a straight kid could flip so easily, what's stopping a gay kid from flipping so easily to being straight? When all said and done, I do however believe that no matter what one might experiment with, their deep rooted desires will prevail and folks will follow what their true attractions are, and not some trend.

 

Personally, I'm glad for society's new found acceptance, but not so fond of the trendy view regarding it. Gayness is nothing new, and has been apart of the human condition for as long as human's have been in existence. My hopes are that folks can see it for what it is, and for people, gay or straight, just to be themselves.

 

A certain past co-worker of mine comes to mind with your question regarding behavior and what his peers thought of him.

 

This guy was of a very soft nature with a very soft way of speaking. When my friends phoned me at work and this guy answered the phone, everyone would ask "Who was that woman?" It wasn't a woman at all. When we would socialize with this guy almost everyone raised an eyebrow and asked "So he's supposed to straight, yeah right?

 

I think that he was very aware that no one believed him to be straight, however knowing him quite well, I am certain that he is 100% straight.

 

He knew that I was gay, so if he needed to confide in me he knew that I was an easy go to, however I could very much see the excitement in his behavior whenever a hot girl was in our company. It wasn't an act. He eventually married, and eventually that marriage dissolved because of his attraction to another woman. The guy is now in his 40's and if he were gay he's had every opportunity to be so, but he undeniably chases skirts, and there's no doubt in my mind that that's what he is fully attracted to.

 

That's only one example, and there's no doubt that some people can be confused about their sexuality or take on self-images related to what their peers think of them. I'm more inclined to think that most straight folks, even if they have "gay" traits will ultimately follow their straight tendencies, whereas if anyone is to follow their opposite tendencies it would be a gay person who is trying their darndest to be straight, but I feel that ultimately that will be useless for them, because their real attractions will continue to surface overruling any attempt they've made to be straight.

 

Can environmental conditioning play a role in one's sexuality? Within the scientific rules of behaviorism it would appear that it very well could, but sexuality unlike other forms of elementary behavior is much more complex and deep rooted at a very early age and makes for challenging if not impossible reconditioning.

 

It's not as simple as reconditioning our eating habits, and we all know that even that is not always an easy challenge.

 

Because there are no clear cut answers to all of this, I feel that I've just gone around in circles a bit, but no matter the answer, I'm happy when I see people demonstrate a mature approach to the question rather than one that is juvenile in nature, or lacks any aim for a true understanding with only attempts to keep an air of misinformation about it, and the myth that it is wrong and unacceptable.

 

Ultimately my hopes are that a more understanding society leeds to less difficulties for teens who encounter their own self discovery of being gay and they can feel more sure that their future isn't going to be one of maladjusted fear.

 

I shudder to think of how many kids have committed suicide throughout time as a result of such a harsh reaction from society, when compassion and understanding could have gone a long way in helping a kid adjust rather than to go to such extremes.

Awesome response. Thanks.

 

Definitely some thought provoking material that I hadn't considered before that changed the way I thought about various issues just because I didn't have any specific personal knowledge of them that I could immediately relate to, just something that I'd wondered about after a fairly introspective friend had posed the question about whether people could be "pushed" to the point after someone had been juvenile in picking on another kid when we were younger.

 

The food/diet example was a great parallel to the way I was thinking of adolescents (in a select few, but certainly not all cases) being conditioned to and ultimately "accepting" the idea.

 

Again, hope I've been clear about the fact that I think that "gay reparative therapy" and "praying the gay away" is something that does far more harm than good. I'd even go so far as to say that, at risk of stereotyping, the people who "counsel" others in that type of thing probably have some issues of their own that they haven't fully dealt with.

 

Nonetheless, even having read the response once, but will probably have to re-read a time or two to fully absorb it and pick up things I missed the first time.

Being white does not give me standing to speak on behalf of all white people. Being a heterosexual does not give me any special insight that qualifies me to speak on behalf of all heterosexuals. As a conservative, I am an authority only on my own political opinions and those opinions do not represent all people claiming to be conservatives.

 

That is what bothers me about so many of these discussions about homosexuality. There are too many cases of people engaging in both heterosexual and homosexual behavior either at the same time or at different times in their lives to dismiss the opinions of those who claim that they made a choice of one lifestyle over the other (or chose both).

 

As I said in another thread, the compulsion toward homosexuality or heterosexuality may be stronger in some than it is in others but we are not born dumb animals. We have free will and are capable of making personal choices of how we live our lives and those choices should be respected. To assume that another person is simply "confused" and living a lie is extremely arrogant, IMO.

Being white does not give me standing to speak on behalf of all white people. Being a heterosexual does not give me any special insight that qualifies me to speak on behalf of all heterosexuals. As a conservative, I am an authority only on my own political opinions and those opinions do not represent all people claiming to be conservatives.

 

That is what bothers me about so many of these discussions about homosexuality. There are too many cases of people engaging in both heterosexual and homosexual behavior either at the same time or at different times in their lives to dismiss the opinions of those who claim that they made a choice of one lifestyle over the other (or chose both).

 

As I said in another thread, the compulsion toward homosexuality or heterosexuality may be stronger in some than it is in others but we are not born dumb animals. We have free will and are capable of making personal choices of how we live our lives and those choices should be respected. To assume that another person is simply "confused" and living a lie is extremely arrogant, IMO.

 

I agree with this totally.

Being white does not give me standing to speak on behalf of all white people. Being a heterosexual does not give me any special insight that qualifies me to speak on behalf of all heterosexuals. As a conservative, I am an authority only on my own political opinions and those opinions do not represent all people claiming to be conservatives.

 

That is what bothers me about so many of these discussions about homosexuality. There are too many cases of people engaging in both heterosexual and homosexual behavior either at the same time or at different times in their lives to dismiss the opinions of those who claim that they made a choice of one lifestyle over the other (or chose both).

 

As I said in another thread, the compulsion toward homosexuality or heterosexuality may be stronger in some than it is in others but we are not born dumb animals. We have free will and are capable of making personal choices of how we live our lives and those choices should be respected. To assume that another person is simply "confused" and living a lie is extremely arrogant, IMO.

 

Nailed it!