I never said winning the A is claiming to be able to compete. Two separate things. I said teams want to say they can compete (and they can) with just about every team in their region. And then defend the A by saying it's a chance for the small schools to compete. Well several of the small schools do compete. Their program is at a level they can compete. They play and compete the same as everyone else. St Henry and NCC can compete at the same level as 85-90% of the ninth region, why would they agree with the philosoohy that the A is for schools that would never get an opportunity otherwise. Well HHS, Holmes, Cooper, Dixie may also never get an opportunity otherwise either. If St. Henry and NCC can compete with these schools, why do they deserve and second chance to experience championship play and the kids at these other schools don't. If they can compete at the same level as these much larger schools, don't tell me they need an extra opportunity these other schools don't get.

 

As for Ryle and Conner comment, that's exactly what I'm saying. All other 15 or so schools in the regions have never competed for the regional title either. That puts us all in the same boat. Now you add the A and give them an opportunity to win a region in the A. What's that do to the rest of the region? If we all are in the same boat and could never have a chance to experience winning the region, why do you feel it's okay to add a chance for a small school but not the others...when those small schools have typically beat all the other school in the region anyway. Remember, you won your district over 6A Dixie and NCC won their district over 4A Highlands. Why do yours and NCC's kids get a second chance to experience success and Dixie and Highlands do not. You can clearly compete! I'm not making that point to say "where's my chance". I'm making that point to show that fact that saying "this tournament is for the small schools that can't compete" is a farce. You don't need it. You CAN compete just as well as 90% of the schools in the region. By the way, that's a compliment to you and NCC!!!!!!!

 

As far as what should you do...I have said multiple times.. I have absolutely no issues with the tournament. I do think it's good for the kids that get to play in it. I have nothing against the teams that play in it. I have a problem with the hypocritical excuses.

 

Is this an in season tournament or a state championship. People that debate this use whichever one they want to make their argument. If it's a state tournament, then we should discuss classifications. If it's a mid-season invitational, then quit calling yourselves state champions. It's not fair to the real state champions! Call yourselves what you want to argure it is. You are a mid-season, classic, invitational champion.

 

I'm saying when you have schools like St Henry and NCC and many others arond the state, you should be proud of what you have and have worked hard to build. You can compete with all the larger schools every year. You don't need the A to be competitive. And neither do many of the other A teams around the state that win it just about every year. And because you have built a perennial competitive team, you walk all over the other A teams anyway. So the schools that everyone really think this tournament is for actually have no chance because they can never beat the other teams that can compete with the big schools anyway. So what's the difference if Bellevue is playing NCC or Conner. Both are going to result in a run rule. Whats the difference is Ludlow is playing Highlands or St Henry. Nothing, again. Both will end in a run rule. When you have teams that are just as good consistently as schools much larger, size doesn't matter because the same schools that get beaten up in the region will get beaten up in the A just as bad. I'm not saying pass it up, I'm saying the A may have run it's course because several A schools around the state have found ways to compete as wells year in and year out just as much as their much larger peers. For example, 4 of the 16 teams in the girls sweet 16 this year were A teams. 7 of the 16 regional finals in girls bball contained A teams. That means we were 3 wins away from having almost half of the teams in the sweet 16 being A teams. My point, small schools have found a way to compete. Just like many mid-majors now compete in the NCAA every year. They find a way. Just like St Henry and NCC does. Do they have a chance to win the whole thing, maybe not. But neither do 90% of the teams in the state!...regardless of size.

 

As a basketball person and no dog in this discussion/fight.... how about the following:

 

Take away the out of district student/athletes, educational guardianship student/athletes and possible transfer student/athletes currently at your school,enrollment may possibly be low enough to participate in the ALL A. Then you would see the excitement and opportunity that this provides for student athletes to show their talents throughout the state.

 

I have never seen someone so worked up about a tournament that they don't / can't participate in, especially when it was stated in one of your very first comments that you were done commenting..... looks like you place a lot of thought into your posts???:idunno:

nah nah nah...apples to oranges. When I say "creating ways to make up championships that already have championships created" That's different that just playing in a tournament. And if I do play in a tournament in season, I typically could care less if I win it. I'm usually playing to get games in and to play good competition. I could care less about the trophy. Playing for a state championship is a different animal. That's why I play in the in-season tournament. To prepare for a championship run! Those that play in the A get a chance at two championship runs.

I thought you said All "A" wasn't a championship... Don't you think a lot of schools especially the better one use the All "A" like you do an in season tourney to make their teams better, if they win great if they don't oh well.

Educational guardianship? Did Dixie lose another softball player?

I never said winning the A is claiming to be able to compete. Two separate things. I said teams want to say they can compete (and they can) with just about every team in their region. And then defend the A by saying it's a chance for the small schools to compete. Well several of the small schools do compete. Their program is at a level they can compete. They play and compete the same as everyone else. St Henry and NCC can compete at the same level as 85-90% of the ninth region, why would they agree with the philosoohy that the A is for schools that would never get an opportunity otherwise. Well HHS, Holmes, Cooper, Dixie may also never get an opportunity otherwise either. If St. Henry and NCC can compete with these schools, why do they deserve and second chance to experience championship play and the kids at these other schools don't. If they can compete at the same level as these much larger schools, don't tell me they need an extra opportunity these other schools don't get.

 

As for Ryle and Conner comment, that's exactly what I'm saying. All other 15 or so schools in the regions have never competed for the regional title either. That puts us all in the same boat. Now you add the A and give them an opportunity to win a region in the A. What's that do to the rest of the region? If we all are in the same boat and could never have a chance to experience winning the region, why do you feel it's okay to add a chance for a small school but not the others...when those small schools have typically beat all the other school in the region anyway. Remember, you won your district over 6A Dixie and NCC won their district over 4A Highlands. Why do yours and NCC's kids get a second chance to experience success and Dixie and Highlands do not. You can clearly compete! I'm not making that point to say "where's my chance". I'm making that point to show that fact that saying "this tournament is for the small schools that can't compete" is a farce. You don't need it. You CAN compete just as well as 90% of the schools in the region. By the way, that's a compliment to you and NCC!!!!!!!

 

As far as what should you do...I have said multiple times.. I have absolutely no issues with the tournament. I do think it's good for the kids that get to play in it. I have nothing against the teams that play in it. I have a problem with the hypocritical excuses.

 

Is this an in season tournament or a state championship. People that debate this use whichever one they want to make their argument. If it's a state tournament, then we should discuss classifications. If it's a mid-season invitational, then quit calling yourselves state champions. It's not fair to the real state champions! Call yourselves what you want to argure it is. You are a mid-season, classic, invitational champion.

 

I'm saying when you have schools like St Henry and NCC and many others arond the state, you should be proud of what you have and have worked hard to build. You can compete with all the larger schools every year. You don't need the A to be competitive. And neither do many of the other A teams around the state that win it just about every year. And because you have built a perennial competitive team, you walk all over the other A teams anyway. So the schools that everyone really think this tournament is for actually have no chance because they can never beat the other teams that can compete with the big schools anyway. So what's the difference if Bellevue is playing NCC or Conner. Both are going to result in a run rule. Whats the difference is Ludlow is playing Highlands or St Henry. Nothing, again. Both will end in a run rule. When you have teams that are just as good consistently as schools much larger, size doesn't matter because the same schools that get beaten up in the region will get beaten up in the A just as bad. I'm not saying pass it up, I'm saying the A may have run it's course because several A schools around the state have found ways to compete as wells year in and year out just as much as their much larger peers. For example, 4 of the 16 teams in the girls sweet 16 this year were A teams. 7 of the 16 regional finals in girls bball contained A teams. That means we were 3 wins away from having almost half of the teams in the sweet 16 being A teams. My point, small schools have found a way to compete. Just like many mid-majors now compete in the NCAA every year. They find a way. Just like St Henry and NCC does. Do they have a chance to win the whole thing, maybe not. But neither do 90% of the teams in the state!...regardless of size.

 

I agree, some of the other "small schools" in the 9th do not have a prayer at ever winning the All "A" Regional (my brutal honesty coming out), but that's not our fault. Speaking for NewCath, we didn't create the All "A", however the current guidelines allow us to participate and we are going to do so. When it comes to softball, we are very fortunate to have "great athletes" playing softball, we don't have true "softball players" playing softball. (Although, my daughter did play one summer, Kohls hasn't played for 2 years, but catcher Kristen Schreiber has played the last two summers).

 

BTW, All "A" member school Owensboro Catholic was the KHSAA State Runner-Up last year and All "A" member Livingstone Central (who defeated Notre Dame) finished in 5th place.....don't hear anyone from their "neck of the woods" chiming in on this issue.

The following are the 9th Region All "A" member schools based on enrollment, minus NewCath and St. Henry, would this be fair now RCC9?

 

Beechwood

Bellevue

Holy Cross

Covington Latin

Dayton

Heritage Academy

Lloyd Memorial

Ludlow

Newport

Villa Madonna

As a basketball person and no dog in this discussion/fight.... how about the following:

 

Take away the out of district student/athletes, educational guardianship student/athletes and possible transfer student/athletes currently at your school,enrollment may possibly be low enough to participate in the ALL A. Then you would see the excitement and opportunity that this provides for student athletes to show their talents throughout the state.

 

I have never seen someone so worked up about a tournament that they don't / can't participate in, especially when it was stated in one of your very first comments that you were done commenting..... looks like you place a lot of thought into your posts???:idunno:

 

:eek::laugh:

719, are you the voice of reason? Goodness! I've never such a cogent post.

I have no problem with the tournament if you want to set it up that way. Only trouble is...just like the All A...the winner of your tournament would not be recognized as a state champion. So your "state champ" portion of your post wouldn't fly.

 

I agree! But the banners they hand out at the end of the A say "A state champ"...or something like that. So you are correct, KHSAA doesn't right it down in the record books, but EVERYONE looks at that tournament as the A state championship. Including the people that host it. Just because it's not officially written in the book somewhere, it's still regarded as a state championship by everyone other than KHSAA. I know and have seen the NCC boy's rings that say A state champs right on them. I'll take a picture of the sign at the baseball field that says A state champs on it. If you go to past players that won an A region or state, they will always says "yea, we won the A region or state my senior year!". So you can use the argument that it's not officially recognized by KHSAA, but the entire state recognizes it as a state championship. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying call it what it is and don't hide behind the "invitational" or "classic" label. If you can show me one school that won the A in any of the major sports events that doesn't feel they are the A state champs, I'll drop it. Don't tell me it's "just another tournament".

I thought you said All "A" wasn't a championship... Don't you think a lot of schools especially the better one use the All "A" like you do an in season tourney to make their teams better, if they win great if they don't oh well.

 

I don't recall saying the A wasn't a championship. Maybe I did in somewhere in some context. But to answer your question, it is treated like a championship by anyone that competes in it.

 

As far as the better ones feeling if they don't win it "oh well"...I can't speak for the rest of the state, but for the better ones up here, it's not "oh well" when they lose. They put a lot of stock into the A region and state. I would say they are just as distrought when they lose in the A as they are when they lose in the district or region. The only saving grace, they still have the other region to look forward to and compete in. Hence my comment about having two opportunities at championship play. Others don't get that opportunity...a second chance.

I agree, some of the other "small schools" in the 9th do not have a prayer at ever winning the All "A" Regional (my brutal honesty coming out), but that's not our fault. Speaking for NewCath, we didn't create the All "A", however the current guidelines allow us to participate and we are going to do so. When it comes to softball, we are very fortunate to have "great athletes" playing softball, we don't have true "softball players" playing softball. (Although, my daughter did play one summer, Kohls hasn't played for 2 years, but catcher Kristen Schreiber has played the last two summers).

 

BTW, All "A" member school Owensboro Catholic was the KHSAA State Runner-Up last year and All "A" member Livingstone Central (who defeated Notre Dame) finished in 5th place.....don't hear anyone from their "neck of the woods" chiming in on this issue.

 

This is my point. There are teams all across the state that can compete with the big schools just fine. They have all found a way. And those schools dominate the A. Just like NCC and St Henry. I'm not saying don't play in it. I'm saying there is no need for it anymore. Just like the BooneMomma was alluding to. Put them all in the same tournament and they fall where they should. There is no reason, in this day and age in softball, to segment out a St Henry and NCC. They kill everyone in the A and compete with the big teams in the regular region, just like everyone else. Why do they need the A? Again, not faulting them at all for playing in it. I'm saying it's useless and really could be considered discrimination. (Save it! I know...it's just an invitational like all the other tournaments.) Useless because the teams that dominate it, can compete with all the other teams anyway. What are we really learning. That NCC and St Henry are great A programs? We already know that. NCC and St Henry will dominate the A reagional? We already know that. NCC and St Henry can consistently compete with the bigger schools in the regions? We already know that. So what are we learning. It comes down to they will win and have a great experience. That is great for those few kids. Not denying that. But what about the other 10-15 teams in the region? Where's their second chance? So in reality, in the ninth region, the A is good for two teams. That's it. I'm sure other regions are very similar. Maybe not all the regions, but my guess is most are similar.

 

I was trying to do some research yesterday on the softball side, similar what I did for bball that proved what I was saying. But the KHSAA site seemed to be acting up and the All A data for softball was not as good as the bball data.

This is my point. There are teams all across the state that can compete with the big schools just fine. They have all found a way. And those schools dominate the A. Just like NCC and St Henry. I'm not saying don't play in it. I'm saying there is no need for it anymore. Just like the BooneMomma was alluding to. Put them all in the same tournament and they fall where they should. There is no reason, in this day and age in softball, to segment out a St Henry and NCC. They kill everyone in the A and compete with the big teams in the regular region, just like everyone else. Why do they need the A? Again, not faulting them at all for playing in it. I'm saying it's useless and really could be considered discrimination. (Save it! I know...it's just an invitational like all the other tournaments.) Useless because the teams that dominate it, can compete with all the other teams anyway. What are we really learning. That NCC and St Henry are great A programs? We already know that. NCC and St Henry will dominate the A reagional? We already know that. NCC and St Henry can consistently compete with the bigger schools in the regions? We already know that. So what are we learning. It comes down to they will win and have a great experience. That is great for those few kids. Not denying that. But what about the other 10-15 teams in the region? Where's their second chance? So in reality, in the ninth region, the A is good for two teams. That's it. I'm sure other regions are very similar. Maybe not all the regions, but my guess is most are similar.

 

I was trying to do some research yesterday on the softball side, similar what I did for bball that proved what I was saying. But the KHSAA site seemed to be acting up and the All A data for softball was not as good as the bball data.

 

They probably blocked you from accessing the data. They are just as tired as everyone else is of reading about this!

The following are the 9th Region All "A" member schools based on enrollment, minus NewCath and St. Henry, would this be fair now RCC9?

 

Beechwood

Bellevue

Holy Cross

Covington Latin

Dayton

Heritage Academy

Lloyd Memorial

Ludlow

Newport

Villa Madonna

 

Yes, that would be a great tournament for those teams. There are probably 4 teams that could win that, with a couple others having a long shot. And none of those teams can compete with the upper half of the region. Enter NCC and St Henry (who can compete with the upper half of the region) and ALL of those teams have no prayer of winning the A region. I know that's not St Henry and NCC's fault. Again, my pioint is the A is useless. If St Henry and NCC dominate the A and have just as good a chance as 90% of the other teams in the regular region of winning the regular region, why do we need the A? To create a second opportunity for teams that already get a chance to compete for a region anyway? Again, where is everyone else's second chance?

They probably blocked you from accessing the data. They are just as tired as everyone else is of reading about this!

 

You know you're my girl!!!! But I will tell you just like everyone else that says that...Then don't open the thread! I know...you can't help yourself!

 

It's just a discussion. I'm not mad at anyone and I acutally learn a lot from these things. And yes, I'm bull-headed on some of it, but listening to some, I do actually get persuaded on some of the stuff.

Alright, since I seem to be talking to myself now...let me throw this one out at ya to get ya going again.

 

The kids that go to NCC, St Henry and HC have a choice whether to attend that school, right? They don't have to go there. They chose to go there. I'm guessing if the kid was an athlete prior to attending, the education and the sports program could have been a factor on why they went there, correct? So they knew they were going to a 1A school that would have to compete with larger schools before they walked in the door, right? And they still chose to go there, right? So if they knew that going in and still chose to go there, why do they need the All A? I may be a little more tolerent of a very smalll public school, but I'm not sure I'm buying the "we're just a small school" arguement from the others.

 

Disclaimer: The author of this post has nothing against small private schools. All discussion pertaining to this thread is non-discrimanatory and for the use of discussion only! (okay, bascially I'm stirring the pot!)

I agree! But the banners they hand out at the end of the A say "A state champ"...or something like that. So you are correct, KHSAA doesn't right it down in the record books, but EVERYONE looks at that tournament as the A state championship. Including the people that host it. Just because it's not officially written in the book somewhere, it's still regarded as a state championship by everyone other than KHSAA. I know and have seen the NCC boy's rings that say A state champs right on them. I'll take a picture of the sign at the baseball field that says A state champs on it. If you go to past players that won an A region or state, they will always says "yea, we won the A region or state my senior year!". So you can use the argument that it's not officially recognized by KHSAA, but the entire state recognizes it as a state championship. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just saying call it what it is and don't hide behind the "invitational" or "classic" label. If you can show me one school that won the A in any of the major sports events that doesn't feel they are the A state champs, I'll drop it. Don't tell me it's "just another tournament".

 

Ummm, no they don't. Ask kids around here who won the Touchstone Energy All A Classic basketball tournament...which is what it is called, and you will get a "Huh? What's that"? In the great scheme of things, it has no relevance whatsoever one way of the other to almost anyone outside of those that participate. Well, except, maybe, for you it appears.

 

Now, what someone has on a ring I don't know...the school or some private entity had those made up and they can have them say anything they want to I guess. Still not a "state champion" no matter what it might say on it.