I do think that's a different issue though, and you raise a good point. The spirit of the All-A Classic was to give the "little guys" a chance at recognition and something to play for. I don't think it's founders intended for a team like this year's NCC and Cordia teams, or some previous year's UHA, Rose Hill, etc., to be in it.

 

I also think teams like last year's KCC were almost too big, speaking in terms of student population, to be in it too.

 

At the same time though, there are also plenty of private schools like Sayre, Model, Kentucky Country Day, etc. These are private schools in the more urban areas of Kentucky who just can't compete with the big publics on a yearly basis without starting to 'recruit' just for basketball. Sure, they might have a "good" team by their standards some years, but on the whole, they aren't going to compete with the numbers at a place like Ballard, Henry Clay, etc. each year.

 

Not really a good answer to that one. I think that at a certain point, it's kind of unfair to a school like a Buckhorn (14th) to be beaten by a loaded Cordia team. I say that too because the kids from Cordia will have their stage in events like the regional tournament, games against teams like Lexington Catholic, and holiday tournaments like the Republic Bank Classic. They're going to be seen playing on some big stages. Same goes for Newport Central Catholic this year. They're one of the best teams in the State and recently had a game so packed out that the number of people were a large contributing factor in the game being called off due to perspiration on the floor. If the exchange kids from Hazard become eligible and are all they are being hyped up to be, then I'll feel the same way about them, but not until then.

 

Long story short, when I think of the All-A, I think of it as a way to reward a small community and give them their chance in the spotlight. Elliott County's teams a few years back would be a perfect example of that. A bunch of kids from a small town who grew up playing together, were good enough to get to state tournament, but just couldn't get past some of the bigger schools like Mason County or Covington Holmes.

 

Private schools can have these same close-knit communities, and many of their kids (while probably not as talented as one of the more "talented" All-A teams from the mountains that I could think of), still have a regional and state championship to play for.

 

I just think that, as a coach, at a certain point, I'd probably hope that my team graduated from the point of playing for All-A titles and instead worried about winning tournaments like the LIT (back when they invited teams from all over the state).

 

While I sometimes wonder why a team like NCC plays in the All "A" the ALL "A" now allows the smallest 125 (I believe it is the number) to play in their Tournament. The smallest 125 that want to play means that some school are just a tad bigger than small.

I have more issues with the open enrollment policies of the Jefferson County public schools than I do the privates. If you have a county that has around 800,000 population and permit students to openly enroll in any school in the county coming out of middle school you are setting up a situation where the best athletes can conglomerate at the same schools.

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I think there's some misconceptions about "open enrollment" in Jefferson County.

 

How I understand the situation, it basically boils down to this:

 

1. You have your home address. That home address is what I will call 'zoned'. If I live in subdivision A, I have the choice of going to, say, 4 nearby high schools, but only one of those 4, IF I want to be bussed to school. Let's assume I live in subdivision A and you live in subdivision B, which shares boundaries with my subdivision on two streets. The kids in subdivision A and B will have some overlap in the schools that they can choose from, say maybe 2 or 3 of the same schools, with the differences being that each can get bussed to a school further from the point where the boundaries between subdivision A and B meet.

 

2. If I can provide my own transportation to and from school (i.e., I'm not being bussed), then I can go to any of the publics (save some of the magnets or traditional schools like Male, Manual, or Butler that require you to pass some type of entrance exam or be qualified in some other way).

 

 

 

Just think about it logistically if kids could choose which schools they wanted to go to unconditionally:

 

3. What if 10,000 kids said they wanted to go to Ballard and only 10 kids said they wanted to go to Fern Creek?

 

4. How expensive would it be to bus a kid in subdivision C (which is on the far southwestern end of Jefferson County) to a school located near subdivision D (which is located in far northeastern end Jefferson County), and vice versa?

 

 

 

I may be completely wrong on the above (especially points 1 & 2), and I'm sure that my example is somewhat oversimplified, but that's how someone from the area explained it to me when talking about the schools they could have gone to.

Edited January 12, 201412 yr by JokersWild24

While I sometimes wonder why a team like NCC plays in the All "A" the ALL "A" now allows the smallest 125 (I believe it is the number) to play in their Tournament. The smallest 125 that want to play means that some school are just a tad bigger than small.

 

Know what you mean. Schools like NCC and KCC are on the fringe for me, definitely a slippery slope when we talk about who should and shouldn't be there and letting the All A devolve into too much of an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.

 

If I'm them and I can only play in 2 tournaments all year, I'd rather take my team to the Republic Bank Classic or LIT and get beat but be ready from region instead of rolling over 3-4 small schools and playing maybe 1-2 good/decent teams on the way to an All-A state championship.

No need to get bent all of shape over my question. Iexplained that I only been on here a couple of weeks and didn't know about any previous discussion on this topic. I'm sorry.

 

Keep it going. Never hurts to discuss things, so fire away.

TAC, who said anything about exclusion? Would just like to see schools put in "categories" where the playing field is leveled. Two categories; one with open enrollment, one with closed. Pretty simple. Everyone knows open has a distinct advantage over closed. Said advantages should not exist. Separate them.

Who said anything about exclusion? Did I misread the title of this thread?

[/b]

 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one, but I think there's some misconceptions about "open enrollment" in Jefferson County.

 

How I understand the situation, it basically boils down to this:

 

1. You have your home address. That home address is what I will call 'zoned'. If I live in subdivision A, I have the choice of going to, say, 4 nearby high schools, but only one of those 4, IF I want to be bussed to school. Let's assume I live in subdivision A and you live in subdivision B, which shares boundaries with my subdivision on two streets. The kids in subdivision A and B will have some overlap in the schools that they can choose from, say maybe 2 or 3 of the same schools, with the differences being that each can get bussed to a school further from the point where the boundaries between subdivision A and B meet.

 

2. If I can provide my own transportation to and from school (i.e., I'm not being bussed), then I can go to any of the publics (save some of the magnets or traditional schools like Male, Manual, or Butler that require you to pass some type of entrance exam or be qualified in some other way).

 

 

 

Just think about it logistically if kids could choose which schools they wanted to go to unconditionally:

 

3. What if 10,000 kids said they wanted to go to Ballard and only 10 kids said they wanted to go to Fern Creek?

 

4. How expensive would it be to bus a kid in subdivision C (which is on the far southwestern end of Jefferson County) to a school located near subdivision D (which is located in far northeastern end Jefferson County), and vice versa?

 

 

 

I may be completely wrong on the above (especially points 1 & 2), and I'm sure that my example is somewhat oversimplified, but that's how someone from the area explained it to me when talking about the schools they could have gone to.

 

Your #2 example leaves a lot if loopholes. The kids are still going to enroll at the school with the best chance of winning state titles, with their AAU and summer camp friends. Bussing and zones won't be an issue. They'll find a ride to school.

Question, Do you think that private schools should be a part OF or included in the KHSAA.

 

See all the dialogue you started with this thread, royal blue 21?

Even though the question has been asked before on BGP---it's always interesting to revisit the topic.

Ignore the naysayers and carry on.

You be you, royal blue 21.

Welcome to BGP.

Public schools do take out of district kids. You're foolish to believe it is only private schools taking out of district students. That's absurd.

 

In NKy, if you send your child to an out-of-district school, you must pay tuition. At Beechwood, it is $3600/yr, more if student is out-of-state.

Beechwood Independent School District

That is nowhere near the almost $12,000/yr that is the tuition at Louisville Trinity and St. X (visit their webpages), even with the best financial aid package possible. Currently Trinity can cover 61% of a family's "demonstrated need," as determined by the Private School Aid Service.

https://www.psas.org/index.aspx

To do the math, assuming a family can't pay a cent of that $12,000, they would only get 61% of it from Trinity in f/a, or, $7320. The family would still be responsible for covering the other $4680 on their own. The 2014-15 PSAS application form should be available at the site soon. It's like the form you fill out for college f/a. Trinity and St. X and I'm sure all other privates guide the family through the process.

In Jefferson County, a number of publics are county-wide with no fees, like DuPont Manual, though of course you arrange your own transportation. Male has 3 large feeder schools but those schools are in different parts of the county; transportation also up to you.

Small towns have fewer if any choices of course.

Your #2 example leaves a lot if loopholes. The kids are still going to enroll at the school with the best chance of winning state titles, with their AAU and summer camp friends. Bussing and zones won't be an issue. They'll find a ride to school.

Manual is county-wide & so are a lot of other Jefferson County schools. Visit the PSJC website for details.

Second, while a lot of these schools are public, you must pass an entrance exam. Details, for instance, at Manual's web site.

Aren't the privates and publics separate in state tournaments in Tennessee? How is it working out in that state?

 

Pretty well, per this link, but realize that Tennessee's private schools have the option to offer "sports-related financial aid." About 50 privates do that, so they are in the special Division II, which is subdivided into II AA (larger) and II A (smaller) schools. Google such schools as Ensworth, Brentwood Academy, & Montgomery Bell Academy in II AA to check on their tuition. Be sure you are seated.

 

Demand to Close Gap Between Public, Non-Public Schools Increases - Athletic Business

While I sometimes wonder why a team like NCC plays in the All "A" the ALL "A" now allows the smallest 125 (I believe it is the number) to play in their Tournament. The smallest 125 that want to play means that some school are just a tad bigger than small.

Why wouldn't NCC want to play in the All A. They have 360 students, well below the cutoff for these teams. Just because they happen to have a good run of players right now is no reason to exclude them. If you think winning the ALL A is not a big deal to them you weren't there last year when they won it. You just can't arbitrarily exclude an eligible team because they happen to be pretty good.

Your #2 example leaves a lot if loopholes. The kids are still going to enroll at the school with the best chance of winning state titles, with their AAU and summer camp friends. Bussing and zones won't be an issue. They'll find a ride to school.

 

That's a fair point.

Know what you mean. Schools like NCC and KCC are on the fringe for me, definitely a slippery slope when we talk about who should and shouldn't be there and letting the All A devolve into too much of an "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.

 

If I'm them and I can only play in 2 tournaments all year, I'd rather take my team to the Republic Bank Classic or LIT and get beat but be ready from region instead of rolling over 3-4 small schools and playing maybe 1-2 good/decent teams on the way to an All-A state championship.

Talk about everybody getting a trophy, look at football. Beat 31 other teams in your class and you are state champ. The ALL A includes about 40% of the teams in the state. And who said there is a limited number of tournaments you can play ina year. NCC went and played the best in the state in Louisville and Lexington, does that disqualify them from playing in a tourney with teams determined to be their size also? If you want a tourney for the really small schools try liminiting it to the 50 smallest and see how long that lasts financially. The real answer is for the KHSAA to get in line with the other 49 states in the country and classify basketball. Nobody ddares touch that one, however. The reason the ALL A came into existence in the first place is because the organizers of the ALL A were rebuffed when they challanged the KHSAA to classify. If we are going to point fingers then the KHSAA could solve ALL these questions by doing what everyone else in the country does. And don't tell me logistics is a problem. If they can't figure out a way to do it, just have them contact Stan Steidel and his crew and they would have it set up in about a month.

Talk about everybody getting a trophy, look at football. Beat 31 other teams in your class and you are state champ. The ALL A includes about 40% of the teams in the state. And who said there is a limited number of tournaments you can play ina year. NCC went and played the best in the state in Louisville and Lexington, does that disqualify them from playing in a tourney with teams determined to be their size also? If you want a tourney for the really small schools try liminiting it to the 50 smallest and see how long that lasts financially. The real answer is for the KHSAA to get in line with the other 49 states in the country and classify basketball. Nobody ddares touch that one, however. The reason the ALL A came into existence in the first place is because the organizers of the ALL A were rebuffed when they challanged the KHSAA to classify. If we are going to point fingers then the KHSAA could solve ALL these questions by doing what everyone else in the country does. And don't tell me logistics is a problem. If they can't figure out a way to do it, just have them contact Stan Steidel and his crew and they would have it set up in about a month.

 

 

I was just using the two tournaments as a hypothetical. However, it is a precarious situation to try and play in too many tournaments. IIRC, for scheduling purposes, tournaments, no matter how many games your team plays, only counts as two games toward the limit on the amount of games you can schedule, however, you only get to count 2 tournaments this way. That becomes a problem if you want to play in 4-5 tournaments where you can't predict how far you'll advance in them.

Why wouldn't NCC want to play in the All A. They have 360 students, well below the cutoff for these teams. Just because they happen to have a good run of players right now is no reason to exclude them. If you think winning the ALL A is not a big deal to them you weren't there last year when they won it. You just can't arbitrarily exclude an eligible team because they happen to be pretty good.

 

Understand, I think it's great tourney to play in (and have attended the tourney many a time when it was played at EKU, ask Mustang) but until NCC gets to the All "A" they don't get much out of playing a lot of the teams in the tourney, ie Ludlow, Dayton, etc and then even in the 1st round of the tourney, unless they get a poor seed, there is not much competition from some regions. Not knocking NCC at all....