I have commented on this subject a number of times.

 

I want to point out the main items that are frustrating to see.

 

1. Most, but not all, schools make the playoffs. A sliver of only 15% are left out.

 

When we did tryouts for a State-wide team and had 9 kids show up for 8 slots those of running the try-out gathered and said we are not cutting one kid. We said we do not want one kid knowing he was the only one to try and not make the team. We were going to cut 2 or not cut at all. With only only 15% (28 or so) school left out of the playoffs this scenerio feels the same. If you can get 192 schools into post season (many with 0-10 records) then get everyone in. Quit leaving out a very small percentage. Otherwise go to taking only 2 or 3 top teams.

 

2. 0-10s make it. 4-6s do not.

 

The clipping of 1A and 6A so that all those teams get in, regardless of record, while teams in large districts in 2A through 5A have teams sitting out post season play - even with good, solid records is terrible. I count at least 5 0-10 teams that got into post season. Most of those were 1A and 6A, 1 was 3A. But left out of post season were teams that were 4-6 (Knott County Central, East Carter) and 3-7 (Bath County, Taylor County). So how do 0-10 teams get into the post season and teams with respectable 4-6 or 3-7 records do not? This just does not seem right at all.

 

3. State is all that matters or 5 weeks of survivor style playoffs.

 

Does anyone celebrate district titles? How about 'Region' titles? Is it still a 'Region title' when the region changes every year (6A issue)? The playoffs are just that - playoffs to a State Championship. Its just 5 weeks of 'Survivor style' playoff. There is nothing separating the Region Championships from the State Championship. They are the same single tournament and any Regional Championship, whether it is your first in 20 years or your 20th in 20 years is not really special event. Its State or nothing in the current setup. And that means 6 teams are Champions and 220 or so are just fodder.

 

Indiana has 2 distinct tournaments - A Sectional tournament and a State tournament. Each is 3 weeks with 7 or 8 teams in each Sectional and the winners of those tournaments advancing to the state tournament. It sets two distinct milestones. It does require 3 weeks for each but Indiana only plays 9 games. Since everyone gets into the Sectional tournament every team will have 10 games minimum. Having two different levels will give the lesser programs or rising programs something to shoot for - and be measurable. Of the 192 teams that come into the post season about 170 or so know they will not will state. So for them its just knockout playoffs.

 

So that its on this subject - forever. The horse is dead. But there are still things that could be improved.[/quoteYour beef seems to be more with the districting than the teams that do and don't make it because of the rules.

 

Whose fault is it that there are districts that only have 3 teams in it? Is it the 5A district that has 5 teams in their district that has to leave a team home in the playoffs or is it the fault of a 3 team district that gets all their teams in no matter what? Is it the fault of a 6A district that has 5 teams in iit that all make the playoffs because another district is short a couple teams?

 

The problem isn't how many teams get in, the problem is that some don't have to worry about it becauuse no matter what they get in the playoffs while other districts actually have to earn their berth. So don't be upset at the districts that have teams that have to earn their post season spots,, be upset at KHSAA that has districts with fewer teams than can accompany the playoff limits in the first place. I'm not even talking abnout fewer classes, I'm talking about having districts in the same class that have 5 teams and other in the same class that only have 3 teams in it. That is the problem. The solution? I don't know. But don't punish the ones tha actually have to earn their spot.

Your beef seems to be more with the districting than the teams that do and don't make it because of the rules.

 

Whose fault is it that there are districts that only have 3 teams in it? Is it the 5A district that has 5 teams in their district that has to leave a team home in the playoffs or is it the fault of a 3 team district that gets all their teams in no matter what? Is it the fault of a 6A district that has 5 teams in iit that all make the playoffs because another district is short a couple teams?

 

The problem isn't how many teams get in, the problem is that some don't have to worry about it becauuse no matter what they get in the playoffs while other districts actually have to earn their berth. So don't be upset at the districts that have teams that have to earn their post season spots,, be upset at KHSAA that has districts with fewer teams than can accompany the playoff limits in the first place. I'm not even talking abnout fewer classes, I'm talking about having districts in the same class that have 5 teams and other in the same class that only have 3 teams in it. That is the problem. The solution? I don't know. But don't punish the ones tha actually have to earn their spot.

 

To the bolded. Yes and yes.

 

If a team goes 0-x in one district and misses the playoffs where another team goes 0-x in another district and makes the playoffs them something is broken.

 

If the regular season is going to be a gate to the post season then make it a more substantial gate. 192 teams participate in week one of the post-season. Though odds are long they get a new chance. Maybe not much - but its there. Around 28 teams do not get the chance. Either get the last 28 in and give them a clean slate - or make the playoffs only 128 teams so that only 'deserving' teams get in.

 

The combination of the two element above means unequal treatment of similarly situated teams.

 

It is wrong on many levels.

Let's try this. First, I'm not trying to compare of other sports or complain about blowouts. Just used those as examples to explain certain scenarios and all of a sudden it goes down the path of "well other sports this and that" and "if you don't like blowouts, don't go". Its about acheivement and earning the right. They all have the right to play football, but you must earn the right to advance to the next level. Heck, why don't we just give them all D1 scholarships too? They all deserve to play college. They all should have a fair chance. Whats that hurting anyone? Let them all in to D1 programs and let it play out!

 

Stick with me a minute. Let's say RCC9, VOR, Jumper and Hellbird meet at Bdubs for an ice cold Coca Cola! (which would actually be fun and am game it you are!). And for this scenario, we invite Julian Tackatt up to discuss football.

 

RCC9 asks: "Mr Tackett, does Football have a district process in place (or for those of you that like to word it as the season matters, I could ask that too)?"

Tacket: Sure, each school plays each other during the season.

RCC9: What is the intent of that process (or making the season count for something)?

Tackett: Well we put a process in place that allows us to differenitate teams.

RCC9: Explain!

Tacket: Well each team plays each other in-season. The results of those games are used to determine who has earned a chance to advance to the playoffs and who did not. It also deterimines seeding for the playoffs.

RCC9:What if you have a tie.

Tackett: We have a process in place to determine tiebreakers. (he proceeds to tell us what that is)

RCC9: So you're telling me there is a process in place and the intent of that process it to eliminate the weaker teams from being awarded a playoff spot, reward other teams for their accomplishments during the regular season, and seed the playoffs.

Tackett: Yes RCC9, that's what I'm saying.

 

(RCC9 turns to the entire tables and asks)

 

RCC9: So with what Mr Tackett just explained and knowing that out of 190 teams in the playoffs, 69 (36%) teams had a losing records, 35 (18%) of those teams won 2 or less games and there were 4 (2%) teams that made the playoffs without winning ANY games...Is the process working properly? Are we awarding teams for having a good season and eliminating the ones that did not?

 

What would your answers be?

Let's try this. First, I'm not trying to compare of other sports or complain about blowouts. Just used those as examples to explain certain scenarios and all of a sudden it goes down the path of "well other sports this and that" and "if you don't like blowouts, don't go". Its about acheivement and earning the right. They all have the right to play football, but you must earn the right to advance to the next level. Heck, why don't we just give them all D1 scholarships too? They all deserve to play college. They all should have a fair chance. Whats that hurting anyone? Let them all in to D1 programs and let it play out!

 

Stick with me a minute. Let's say RCC9, VOR, Jumper and Hellbird meet at Bdubs for an ice cold Coca Cola! (which would actually be fun and am game it you are!). And for this scenario, we invite Julian Tackatt up to discuss football.

 

RCC9 asks: "Mr Tackett, does Football have a district process in place (or for those of you that like to word it as the season matters, I could ask that too)?"

Tacket: Sure, each school plays each other during the season.

RCC9: What is the intent of that process (or making the season count for something)?

Tackett: Well we put a process in place that allows us to differenitate teams.

RCC9: Explain!

Tacket: Well each team plays each other in-season. The results of those games are used to determine who has earned a chance to advance to the playoffs and who did not. It also deterimines seeding for the playoffs.

RCC9:What if you have a tie.

Tackett: We have a process in place to determine tiebreakers. (he proceeds to tell us what that is)

RCC9: So you're telling me there is a process in place and the intent of that process it to eliminate the weaker teams from being awarded a playoff spot, reward other teams for their accomplishments during the regular season, and seed the playoffs.

Tackett: Yes RCC9, that's what I'm saying.

 

(RCC9 turns to the entire tables and asks)

 

RCC9: So with what Mr Tackett just explained and knowing that out of 190 teams in the playoffs, 69 (36%) teams had a losing records, 35 (18%) of those teams won 2 or less games and there were 4 (2%) teams that made the playoffs without winning ANY games...Is the process working properly? Are we awarding teams for having a good season and eliminating the ones that did not?

 

What would your answers be?

 

Jumper_Dad making the drive from Somerset would REQUIRE this meeting taking place at LaRosa's. Correct me if I'm wrong Jumper. :clap:

Here is perspective. Let's look at Boy's Soccer this year. Why were these teams in the playoffs?

 

Rose Hill .......... 0-8 ..... lost 10-0 in round one (multiply each goal by 7 to get a similar score to football; this was a 70-0 loss)

Eliott Co. ..........1-9 ...... lost 10-1 in round one

Ft. Knox .......... 1-18-1... lost 6-0

Butler Co. ........ 0-9 ...... lost 10-0

Apollo ............. 2-18 ..... lost 7-0

Middlesboro ..... 0-12 ..... lost 8-0 AND STILL WENT ON TO THE REGIONAL!!

 

I could build big lists like this for every sport. My point is bad teams get into the post season in every sport and there are big blowout losses in round one in every sport. Football is not any different and I don't see why football should be treated differently.

 

 

Then to solve the problem, Football will have only 1 class and only 1 state title to win!

I know there will probably be a million logical holes in my plan, but this just came to mind while I was reading through the thread. Would something like this work?:

 

First Round

District 5 #1 vs. District 6 #3

 

District 5 #2 vs. District 6 #2

 

District 5 #3 vs. District 6 #1

 

District 5 #4 vs. District 6 #4

 

The idea is that there would be less #4's being blown out. In a sense they'd have a play-in game against each other. The other six teams would follow the normal pattern. The main drawback I see is that it lets a #4 team get one round farther. But if they're truly bad, they're going to get killed in the next game anyway. At least their presence in the playoffs will have been somewhat earned.

 

Okay...let me have it!

Hmmm...in 2009 a really down CC team got trounced by Ft. Campbell in the first round...don't remember you guys saying you didn't want to at least have a chance to play. Not to mention perhaps the experience is what has led to this point 4 years later?? Just food for thought.

 

That was a LONG drive home from a tail-whipping my Tigers took on base that night. The only good part of it was the extra week of practice the boys got in. The 56-7 beating was not easy to watch at all.

Assuming both #1's win. Who gets the #2 pairing winner and who gets the #4 pairing winner?

 

If you went to 4 classes and went to 8 District/Regions (Super District) in each you could have 7 teams in each Super District (works for up to 224 teams). Then the first round pairings could be 6-7 ('play-in' game), 2-5 and 3-4. #1 (Super District regular season champion) gets a bye as reward for winning Super District. Winner of 6-7 goes against #1 in second week (ok, its likely a less than competitive game), 2-5 winner plays 3-4 winner.

 

Other alternative would be to throw 8 teams into pool and blind draw...You have to either seed or blind draw it would seem.

Really it comes down to having 6 classes and districts primarily comprised of 4 teams leading to a watered product. In a (my) perfect world there would be 8 teams taken from 2 districts, but the districts would be at least 6 teams deep.

Then to solve the problem, Football will have only 1 class and only 1 state title to win!

But who says their is a problem? Maybe that is VoR and my point. Who cares about the number of teams in the playoffs. It isn't a problem. Let it be.

Let's try this. First, I'm not trying to compare of other sports or complain about blowouts. Just used those as examples to explain certain scenarios and all of a sudden it goes down the path of "well other sports this and that" and "if you don't like blowouts, don't go". Its about acheivement and earning the right. They all have the right to play football, but you must earn the right to advance to the next level. Heck, why don't we just give them all D1 scholarships too? They all deserve to play college. They all should have a fair chance. Whats that hurting anyone? Let them all in to D1 programs and let it play out!

 

Stick with me a minute. Let's say RCC9, VOR, Jumper and Hellbird meet at Bdubs for an ice cold Coca Cola! (which would actually be fun and am game it you are!). And for this scenario, we invite Julian Tackatt up to discuss football.

 

RCC9 asks: "Mr Tackett, does Football have a district process in place (or for those of you that like to word it as the season matters, I could ask that too)?"

Tacket: Sure, each school plays each other during the season.

RCC9: What is the intent of that process (or making the season count for something)?

Tackett: Well we put a process in place that allows us to differenitate teams.

RCC9: Explain!

Tacket: Well each team plays each other in-season. The results of those games are used to determine who has earned a chance to advance to the playoffs and who did not. It also deterimines seeding for the playoffs.

RCC9:What if you have a tie.

Tackett: We have a process in place to determine tiebreakers. (he proceeds to tell us what that is)

RCC9: So you're telling me there is a process in place and the intent of that process it to eliminate the weaker teams from being awarded a playoff spot, reward other teams for their accomplishments during the regular season, and seed the playoffs.

Tackett: Yes RCC9, that's what I'm saying.

 

(RCC9 turns to the entire tables and asks)

 

RCC9: So with what Mr Tackett just explained and knowing that out of 190 teams in the playoffs, 69 (36%) teams had a losing records, 35 (18%) of those teams won 2 or less games and there were 4 (2%) teams that made the playoffs without winning ANY games...Is the process working properly? Are we awarding teams for having a good season and eliminating the ones that did not?

 

What would your answers be?

I would say, the n Mr Tackett will you please drive to Louisville and let RockPride and the restof Trinity nation know that Trinity will not be playiing in the post season because they have a losing record.

 

I'd then order a club sandwich and another Mt Dew.

I'd then ask one last question.

Because every team does not make the playoffs, and the few that do make it based on no wins due to number of teams in some districts is actually the minority not the majority as RCC wants you to believe. What does the current strudture really hurt?

 

I'd then watch everyone scratch their head trying to come up with an answer to that question aand aftter no reasonable answer I'd order a round on RCC.

To the bolded. Yes and yes.

 

If a team goes 0-x in one district and misses the playoffs where another team goes 0-x in another district and makes the playoffs them something is broken.

 

If the regular season is going to be a gate to the post season then make it a more substantial gate. 192 teams participate in week one of the post-season. Though odds are long they get a new chance. Maybe not much - but its there. Around 28 teams do not get the chance. Either get the last 28 in and give them a clean slate - or make the playoffs only 128 teams so that only 'deserving' teams get in.

 

The combination of the two element above means unequal treatment of similarly situated teams.

 

It is wrong on many levels.

That is why I said what you bolded. It's not the fault of the majority that actually have to earn their way in, but the fault of how some of the districts are set up to not have enough teams. So don't blame theteams that get in that shouldn't,, blame KHSAA for setting up the districts that don't have enough teams in them.

I would say, the n Mr Tackett will you please drive to Louisville and let RockPride and the restof Trinity nation know that Trinity will not be playiing in the post season because they have a losing record.

 

I'd then order a club sandwich and another Mt Dew.

I'd then ask one last question.

Because every team does not make the playoffs, and the few that do make it based on no wins due to number of teams in some districts is actually the minority not the majority as RCC wants you to believe. What does the current strudture really hurt?

 

I'd then watch everyone scratch their head trying to come up with an answer to that question aand aftter no reasonable answer I'd order a round on RCC.

 

See heres where you're wrong AGAIN. Mr Tackatt wouldn't have to drive to Louisville and tell T that they didn't make the post season because Trinity is a 2 seed. They took care of business in their district and played an unbelieveale out of district schedule that led to losses. I said nothing about not making the playoffs based on your overall record. The only reason I said anything about the overall record is to show how many teams with losing records "earned" a playoff spot. I think you'd agree that T's record (because of who they play) is not a typical KY high school scenario. Again you change the subject or twist words to not address the question. You assume I'm talking about teams with losing records making he playoffs. I used that stats to show the percentage of teams with losing records making the playoffs as an example of how the current process is not working as intended. Not sure where I said there should NEVER be a team with a losing record should be in the playoffs. I'm fine if they earn their way in. There will always be an exception to the norm. But 36% (losing teams) doesn't appear to be an exception!

 

Secondly, I asked what would be your response to "Is the current process working as Mr Tackett explained?" Answer that question. Don't deflect the answer. Because if there is a process (which no one can say there isn't), there has to be a reason in place for a process or there wouldn't be one. If you think the process is in place but the intentions of the process are different that what I described above, I'd listen to that argurment. But if you agree that there is a process in place and the intentions of that process are as stated (or very close), then don't come back with "why does it hurt anything" Answer the question. Because if your answer is "why does it hurt anything" then why have the process at all??? And I know you don't like that because I've already heard you talk about Boone Co getting in and your more in favor of 3 instead of 4 on MANY occasions. So what is it Hellbird, "I want a process" or "why does it hurt to let them all in?" If you want the process to do what you have stated many times, then the process (as is) is not working. So I assume that you (sitting at that table) would say, you're right, the process is not working...based on many of your other posts. Don't complain about is on one side and then say it doen't hurt anything on the other.

That is why I said what you bolded. It's not the fault of the majority that actually have to earn their way in, but the fault of how some of the districts are set up to not have enough teams. So don't blame theteams that get in that shouldn't,, blame KHSAA for setting up the districts that don't have enough teams in them.

 

Therefore the process isn't working! It is NOT differienting teams and making teams "earn" their way in. Because clearly teams with NO WINS at all have "earned" their way in. Also teams with 1-3 season wins and no district wins have also "earned" their way in. Again Hellbird, is the process working as it was intended?

Therefore the process isn't working! It is NOT differienting teams and making teams "earn" their way in. Because clearly teams with NO WINS at all have "earned" their way in. Also teams with 1-3 season wins and no district wins have also "earned" their way in. Again Hellbird, is the process working as it was intended?

 

Will you tell me what basketball teams do to earn their way into the post season tournament?

 

And to answer your question about football postseason, I would say it is the best we can do to get as many teams as possible into the post season. If you can find a better way to get every football team into the post season, I am all ears.