Bible and church history are riddled with scandals that at times SEEM to go unpunished. Concerning priestly scandal and those in authority, we look to the Old Testament and we see:

 

•The first priest (Adam) didn't protect his wife and as a result they completely ruined a perfect humanity (Genesis 3)

•Abraham taking Hagar as a second wife (Genesis 16)

•Lot has gets drunk and has sex with his two daughters (Genesis 19)

•Jacob tricking his father into giving him the blessing deserved on his brother (Genesis 27)

•Judah having sex with his daughter-in-law (Genesis 38)

•Reuben having sex with his father's wife (Genesis 35)

•Simeon and Levi killing a whole town of men (Genesis 34)

•Moses murdering an Egyptian (Exodus 2)

•Eli's (the high priest) two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, were abusing the people who were making sacrifices (1 Samuel 2)

•David was guilt of adultery and murder (2 Samuel 11)

 

In the New Testament:

•Judas, who was a bishop, stole from the purse, and, oh yes, got God murdered. (John 12, Mark 14)

•Peter tried to prevent the salvation of the world and caused a scandal with the gentiles. (Matthew 16, Galatians 2)

 

Now concerning this present time that you're speaking of....as you can see nothing is new. Finn being left in power IS a scandal...BUT, I can't help but think that we can't leave Jesus because of Judas. Are we to think that we can go and start our own church that is sinless? No, because as soon as any humans join it, the scandals will begin. We all beg Jesus for mercy for us all, but we can't FORCE Justice in places where we have no power.

 

I have no idea of exactly what goes on in the Vatican, what the Pope directly knows and what he doesn't know. I do know that he is in charge of 1.2 BILLION souls, and that he may miss out on something important here or there. That's a sad fact of humanity....we lack omnipotence. We have to rely on others to help us. Even the Pope has to do that. Fact is, what others decide to do isn't necessarily always the right thing to do.

Interesting read. I salute your scholarship and candor. I'm too cynical to be in concert with everything contained in your last two paragraphs. You still see the church as a vehicle to salvation in light of its flaws; I see the Vatican as a cabal of corruption that led to the resignation of Benedict 16.

I do have one obvious question for the conservative Catholic faithful that hasn't been asked or answered yet: If Burke wants to deny Pelosi from participating in the eucharist, then shouldn't same apply to women who take the pill?

 

To this, I'd say they'd try to if they could. How exactly is the church supposed to discern whom among the congregation is on the "pill" and who isn't?

First, I asked for your opinion so it's hardly being judgmental.

 

You perfectly illustrate the problem with being Catholic and a member of Congress. Our reps are supposed to represent the entire district - not just Catholics.

 

If I remember correctly you are in the minority in that you believe women who have abortions should be jailed(correct me if I'm wrong). I do not believe that even though I believe abortions are immoral. If I'm a member of Congress there is no way I'd vote for anything that makes abortions illegal. I do NOT want members of Congress putting their religion first when it comes to policy and law.

 

You're correct about the jailing issue.

 

As far as voting religion over law, though, it's my opinion that scientifically, life begins at fertilization. That doesn't have anything to do with my religion. I believe that abortion is a murder in the womb, and is denying that person their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

According to an article in the Washington Times the highest court in the Vatican is denying communion to Pelosi.

The reason being of her support for abortion.

 

Also, did Pelosi say something about that it is OK that Americans are losing work hours so they can "follow their passions"?

 

The real reason they denied her communion is because she is the devil.

I love the certainty from you and others that "there is no cover-up anymore." If you really believe that, then I have a piece of Noah's Ark to sell you. As far as others inquiring of my faith, that is a matter between me and the Almighty and not germane to this discussion.

 

I do have one obvious question for the conservative Catholic faithful that hasn't been asked or answered yet: If Burke wants to deny Pelosi from participating in the eucharist, then shouldn't same apply to women who take the pill?

 

If they promote its use and blatantly go against Church teachings of course. Again the church does not punish everyone because most people don't flaunt it.

I love the certainty from you and others that "there is no cover-up anymore." If you really believe that, then I have a piece of Noah's Ark to sell you. As far as others inquiring of my faith, that is a matter between me and the Almighty and not germane to this discussion.

 

I do have one obvious question for the conservative Catholic faithful that hasn't been asked or answered yet: If Burke wants to deny Pelosi from participating in the eucharist, then shouldn't same apply to women who take the pill?

 

I know exactly what I said. I did not say that abuse no longer occurs (I certainly pray that it doesn't). I said that "there is no cover-up anymore". The Bishop of Covington has made it publicly known that he spends several hours of many of his days in meetings with victims of abuse cases. There are processes in place (at least in this Diocese) to prevent future instances.

First, I asked for your opinion so it's hardly being judgmental.

 

You perfectly illustrate the problem with being Catholic and a member of Congress. Our reps are supposed to represent the entire district - not just Catholics.

 

If I remember correctly you are in the minority in that you believe women who have abortions should be jailed(correct me if I'm wrong). I do not believe that even though I believe abortions are immoral. If I'm a member of Congress there is no way I'd vote for anything that makes abortions illegal. I do NOT want members of Congress putting their religion first when it comes to policy and law.

 

I certainly do not want members of Congress putting religion first. I DO want politicians that vote from their conscience and follow a standard system of values, beliefs, and ethics that I happen to share. I am not too ignorant to think that happens every election, but that is why we vote in this republic we call the United States. Whoever wins (my candidate or not) REPRESENTS me (whether I like that or not). It so happens that many of the candidates I like have had their faith (call it religion if you must) affect the FORMATION of their conscience, values, beliefs, and ethics. It really bugs me when somebody like Pelosi still calls herself a Catholic and has not had the beliefs of the Church affect what she believes in.

If they promote its use and blatantly go against Church teachings of course. Again the church does not punish everyone because most people don't flaunt it.

I'm not going to use the 98 percent figure, but I think it's safe to say that a vast majority of Catholic women have used or are on birth control. If the church cracked down on these violators of orthodoxy, Sunday masses would look like meetings of the parish men's club.

I certainly do not want members of Congress putting religion first. I DO want politicians that vote from their conscience and follow a standard system of values, beliefs, and ethics that I happen to share. I am not too ignorant to think that happens every election, but that is why we vote in this republic we call the United States. Whoever wins (my candidate or not) REPRESENTS me (whether I like that or not). It so happens that many of the candidates I like have had their faith (call it religion if you must) affect the FORMATION of their conscience, values, beliefs, and ethics. It really bugs me when somebody like Pelosi still calls herself a Catholic and has not had the beliefs of the Church affect what she believes in.

Fifty percent of Catholics voted for Obama last year.

I'm not going to use the 98 percent figure, but I think it's safe to say that a vast majority of Catholic women have used or are on birth control. If the church cracked down on these violators of orthodoxy, Sunday masses would look like meetings of the parish men's club.

 

Again, how are the supposed to crack down on it? They going to go through every female congregation member's medicine cabinet?

Fifty percent of Catholics voted for Obama last year.

 

Not this one.

Enclosed is a link that is a fantastic summary of the Catholic position on this topic. It answers 10 FAQs that address most of the issues posed within this thread.

 

lifeissues.net | Ten questions regarding the denial of the Eucharist.

Again, how are the supposed to crack down on it? They going to go through every female congregation member's medicine cabinet?

 

What if a female Catholic congresswoman said she supported a woman's right to have access to birth control in her insurance plan?

To this, I'd say they'd try to if they could. How exactly is the church supposed to discern whom among the congregation is on the "pill" and who isn't?

The Vatican has a long history of extracting information from people who wish to keep such secret. To avoid being seen as disingenuous, the church should prosecute the birth-control soccer moms with as much fervor as is being directed at Nancy Pelosi. Birth control and abortion both occupy the same status on the church's "sin ladder," correct?

The Vatican has a long history of extracting information from people who wish to keep such secret. To avoid being seen as disingenuous, the church should prosecute the birth-control soccer moms with as much fervor as is being directed at Nancy Pelosi. Birth control and abortion both occupy the same status on the church's "sin ladder," correct?

 

So.....bring back the Inquisition, you say?