Which avoided assassination would've had the greater impact on our country, specifically dealing with race relations and civil rights?

 

Would the likes of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson even be relevant today? Would there be a need for groups like the NAACP, or things such as Affirmative Action? How would things be different than they are today?

My initial thought would be Lincoln, simply because he was already in a position of power. MLK would still have to convince others that were in power to make the changes.

Lincoln. He had the power.

 

 

Let's be real. What did MLK really do? I've always felt like his impact and influence was overblown and just a feel good story. IMO he really didn't do anything.

As I alluded to in the other thread, the revenge for the war and Lincoln's death might have been reduced by Lincoln as he had a ton of political capital at that point. A less punitive approach towards the south may have reduced the hardship directed towards blacks. Jim Crow might have ended earlier and the kkk might not have gained as much of a foothold, leaving less work for Dr.. King.

I think MLK's martyrdom might have helped in some way, as perverse as that sounds. Most people can't identify many of the other leaders of the civil rights movement, some of whom are still around. It's rare that someone can be both political and so widely well regarded. It's rare to find anyone today who wouldn't affirm his legacy largely because it's hard to find anyone today who would affirm the Jim Crow South. So, I wonder if MLK's reputation and aura would have been tarnished if he had continued to be a public figure through different eras and not so synonymous with the movement.

 

Lincoln would have been a better president than either Johnson or Grant, but the idea that he would have significantly impacted Southern racism is overstated. He was killed by a white supremacist. He embodied all that the South hated. I don't believe there is a policy he could have enacted or speech he could have given that would have removed the white supremacist society of the slavery era. We are still grappling with it today. It would have been an impossible task.

Lincoln. He had the power.

 

 

Let's be real. What did MLK really do? I've always felt like his impact and influence was overblown and just a feel good story. IMO he really didn't do anything.

 

You sound like the old barber in Barber Shop, Bernie Mac played him maybe?

 

I'm sorry, I know this is serious, but I just pictured you in that role lol.

I think MLK's martyrdom might have helped in some way, as perverse as that sounds. Most people can't identify many of the other leaders of the civil rights movement, some of whom are still around. It's rare that someone can be both political and so widely well regarded. It's rare to find anyone today who wouldn't affirm his legacy largely because it's hard to find anyone today who would affirm the Jim Crow South. So, I wonder if MLK's reputation and aura would have been tarnished if he had continued to be a public figure through different eras and not so synonymous with the movement.

 

Lincoln would have been a better president than either Johnson or Grant, but the idea that he would have significantly impacted Southern racism is overstated. He was killed by a white supremacist. He embodied all that the South hated. I don't believe there is a policy he could have enacted or speech he could have given that would have removed the white supremacist society of the slavery era. We are still grappling with it today. It would have been an impossible task.

 

While you are correct about the white supremacist mentality, it could be that Lincoln (who was against treating the south as occupied territory) might have been able to alleviate some of the drive by those in congress to punish the south. A less punitive policy may have led to better economic opportunity for the south and potentially less of a drive for people to join the KKK for personal economic benefit, i.e. elimination of competition for cheap labor in freed slaves.

 

Just speculating here obviously, I haven't studied the reconstruction era south in detail in some 8 years.

You sound like the old barber in Barber Shop, Bernie Mac played him maybe?

 

I'm sorry, I know this is serious, but I just pictured you in that role lol.

 

 

I ain't mad. I just remembered his rant when you said that. :lol: Rosa Parks too. :lol:

Cedric the Entertainer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have always felt that way though. MLK is a great story for the history books as he provides some balance so the books aren't so whitewashed but in reality he's no different than Jesse and Al. He was a black man with a platform that white people happened to like and admire. He was also a known womanizer. And how did he make money? I'm fairly certain his family was well off.

 

 

I get that MLK was an inspirational figure and all but there is no comparison between him and Lincoln. Lincoln did more than just talk. Lincoln did more for me in 2013 than MLK ever could have.

Lincoln. He had the power.

 

 

Let's be real. What did MLK really do? I've always felt like his impact and influence was overblown and just a feel good story. IMO he really didn't do anything.

 

He mainstreamed the effort/cause and broadened it. He was on a Gandhi type path that to some (PP92?) seemed slow. I remember he was against the Freedom Rides into Mississippi. And I am sure he was not a fan of the fringe radical groups that came into power after his death - Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, etc. But the cause came to critical mass under him and he pushed into white America's living rooms.

 

After his death the more radical/militant/violent functions gained power. And it seems that those around him - Jesse Jackson - were much more bitter. So his death seemed to create a lingering divide.

 

 

 

As for Lincoln - he was done. He won the war. There was nothing big that he could really do after that since the nation was in a long rebuilding process. It seems God calls home the warriors early - thinking of George Patton in the same way.

Lincoln definitely had a plan of acceptance for the south coming back into the union. I think that Lincoln would have probably won at least one more term giving him a full 6 years after the war to ensure reconstruction wasn't southern destruction. Lincoln would have been a much better steward of our country after the war than he was during the war, he was out of his depth during the war and if the south had won he would have taken as much or more blame than the generals for the defeat for the way he managed the war.

 

King was no saint, but he did understand that the path to reconciliation between blacks and whites was in a non-combative way. I am more a fan of what Medgar Evers did and the work he put in day in and day out, walking the walk so to speak without an army of security around him. I think what King did best was talk to people with reason and get people on both sides to listen and get past the racial rhetoric of the day.

 

I guess an overly simple view that I have is that, "Abraham Lincoln freed the blacks in this country and Martin Luther King Jr gave them a voice."

I ain't mad. I just remembered his rant when you said that. :lol: Rosa Parks too. :lol:

Cedric the Entertainer.

 

"Mannn, ____ Jesse Jackson!!"

 

:lol2:

He mainstreamed the effort/cause and broadened it. He was on a Gandhi type path that to some (PP92?) seemed slow. I remember he was against the Freedom Rides into Mississippi. And I am sure he was not a fan of the fringe radical groups that came into power after his death - Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, etc. But the cause came to critical mass under him and he pushed into white America's living rooms.

 

After his death the more radical/militant/violent functions gained power. And it seems that those around him - Jesse Jackson - were much more bitter. So his death seemed to create a lingering divide.

 

 

 

As for Lincoln - he was done. He won the war. There was nothing big that he could really do after that since the nation was in a long rebuilding process. It seems God calls home the warriors early - thinking of George Patton in the same way.

 

 

Seemed slow? Way too slow. MLK gets a pass because he was liked and admired. If he was alive today he'd be louder than Jesse and Al when discussing Trayvon Martin. I'd LOVE to see reaction to that.

It's really apples to oranges. I don't know lots of people who think either of them are a bad person. Ugliest Ms. America much?

I saw a show the other day on Dr. King and it talked about some flack he received from the Black community when he started to branch out from racial injustice into broader areas of economic injustice and then even something in the international arena but I don't recall if it was the economics or something else. He was so young when he died that you have to wonder what he would have accomplished.

I saw a show the other day on Dr. King and it talked about some flack he received from the Black community when he started to branch out from racial injustice into broader areas of economic injustice and then even something in the international arena but I don't recall if it was the economics or something else. He was so young when he died that you have to wonder what he would have accomplished.

 

He definitely branched out. He was openly opposed to the Vietnam war for a variety of reasons; at the time of his death he was in the process of organizing the "Poor People's Campaign"; and the thing that took him to Memphis in April 1968 in the first place was his support of the local sanitation workers' strike.