July 23, 201313 yr No silver bullet in these charts but it paints a bleak picture of what has happened. 11 Charts That Show Why Detroit Is Falling Apart And Heading For Bankruptcy - Business Insider
July 23, 201313 yr Ghost towns pop up when economic models go kaput. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about a finite resource or the manufacture of cars. There's an expiration date on everything. If you're right that "this one belongs to the political party and the unions," then why is Chicago still a thriving city and Detroit isn't? The obvious, easy answer for most respondents to this board is to blame unions and Democrats. It's far more complicated than that, and in Detroit's case, it starts with non-diversification of its economic base. Seriously?? Chicago--Thriving?? :lol: $600 million yearly budget deficit, businesses fleeing the city & state in record numbers, and a murder rate approaching crisis preportions--Rahmbo-ville is far from thriving. They're in the same courthouse line as Detroit, just a little further back in the line, and will join them if they don't make the drastic changes to reform the city unions, pension obligations and crime stats that Detroit refused to make!!
July 23, 201313 yr Author Ghost towns pop up when economic models go kaput. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about a finite resource or the manufacture of cars. There's an expiration date on everything. If you're right that "this one belongs to the political party and the unions," then why is Chicago still a thriving city and Detroit isn't? The obvious, easy answer for most respondents to this board is to blame unions and Democrats. It's far more complicated than that, and in Detroit's case, it starts with non-diversification of its economic base. Chicago is thriving? Chicago faces an estimated budget gap of $635.7 million next year, and the deficit could approach $800 million by 2014, Emanuel said today, revealing his initial budget projections for fiscal year 2012. Read more: Emanuel: Chicago Budget Gap Worse Than Everyone Thought - Business Insider A big portion of the deficit comes from union contracts with locked-in raises for the city workers, rising employee healthcare costs, and growing municipal debt. The budget projections don't include Chicago's staggering $14.6 billion pension liability. Read more: Emanuel: Chicago Budget Gap Worse Than Everyone Thought - Business Insider Emanuel: Chicago Budget Gap Worse Than Everyone Thought - Business Insider
July 24, 201313 yr The bottom line the city isn't safe which played a large part into the flight to t he suburbs . Even most the car plants and other manufacturing plants that stayed in the area moved to other parts of Michigan and Northern Ohio. City of Detroit became unattractive to business. Fords world headquarters is in Dearborn I believe which would surprise most people. Detroit is just the glaring example of how these defined benefit plans are bankrupting America. You can't have people living into there 80s and sometimes 90s retiring in their 50s and collecting guaranteed income for life . The math doesn't add up. Another problem that falls into the corruption side has been the actuaries and managers of these pensions and their projected future returns which are unrealistic. By the way Gov. Snyder in Michigan has done a miraculous job turning around the state as a whole. Went from running a major deficit to now how having major surplus. Its just sad to see the once crown jewel of the state suffer. I feel for the residents and my neighbors only 20 mins away. But the leadership has been poor for decades and I don't know if anyone has any answers or if their are any.
July 24, 201313 yr No silver bullet in these charts but it paints a bleak picture of what has happened. 11 Charts That Show Why Detroit Is Falling Apart And Heading For Bankruptcy - Business Insider Are there any charts on Kentucky? Story I read maybe two months ago said the commonwealth had one of the worst-funded retirement pension plans for state employees (including teachers) in the nation.
July 24, 201313 yr Chicago is thriving? It's a happenin' place. That's why the Rosie Reds head up there a couple times a year. Great town. When one of my kids was going to college there, I didn't check the city's balance sheet before driving up for a visit. Or as Frank said: " ... Each time I leave, Chicago is tuggin' my sleeve, Chicago is ... my kind of town."
July 24, 201313 yr Chicago is like many big cities, some areas of opportunity and success and huge areas of abstract failure. Chicago is as corrupt as Detroit if not worse, if that's even possible. Chicago Aldermen routinely vote down jobs opportunities for their communities at the behest of local union leaders. Chicago has great Pizza, decent Basketball, horrible Baseball and their Debt rating just dropped 3 positions in one day Moody's Cuts Chicago Debt Rating As Crime-Fighting Costs And Pension Deficits Buffet The Windy City
July 24, 201313 yr Chicago had a double downgrade of their public debt rating one day before Detroit's bankruptcy filing. Why???? Long term pension liabilities. Municipal finance is very complex; however, although Chicago is in much better shape on the revenue side (diversified economy and solid population base) this will ony mask the pension liability issue if they don't address it in the near term.
July 24, 201313 yr See. It's not hard at all to give a good answer besides saying liberal economics and union democrats. These last few posts make so much more sense.
July 24, 201313 yr Hello BGP and America, Welcome to the "New "United States of America" under Obama!So , does anyone else want to take a guess on the next city to fall?
July 24, 201313 yr Chicago is like many big cities, some areas of opportunity and success and huge areas of abstract failure. Chicago is as corrupt as Detroit if not worse, if that's even possible. Chicago Aldermen routinely vote down jobs opportunities for their communities at the behest of local union leaders. Chicago has great Pizza, decent Basketball, horrible Baseball and their Debt rating just dropped 3 positions in one day Moody's Cuts Chicago Debt Rating As Crime-Fighting Costs And Pension Deficits Buffet The Windy City Don't forget those great bagel places along Dempster Road in Skokie. Speaking of Detroit, public works retirees only bring in $19,000 a year average; police/firefighter retirees only realize on average $30,500 annually. That ain't a whole lot, especially when there's no Social Security to supplement. So the problem, at least in Detroit, ain't exorbitant pensions. It's lack of a tax base to pay for these ordinary pension plans.
July 24, 201313 yr See. It's not hard at all to give a good answer besides saying liberal economics and union democrats. These last few posts make so much more sense. Honestly I may be clouded in my view . But I just see the Detroit model as a liberal blueprint on economics. Obviously you are correct corruption played as big of a role if not bigger so I never want to down play that aspect. Anyone who is not familiar should just Google Detroit and corruption its like nothing I ever saw in Kentucky. People talk about EKY corruption in politics and its child's play compared to Detroit. Stories sound like movies . Honestly the problem stems back to crony capitalism and each party picks their groups to back. In this specific case the corrupt relationship between unions and politicians is the heart of the problem to go along with corrupt politicians in general.
July 24, 201313 yr See. It's not hard at all to give a good answer besides saying liberal economics and union democrats. These last few posts make so much more sense. Yup--Long term underfunded pension liabilities, unfriendly or over regulated business climates, too expensive social programs----No chance of liberal policy or unions near any of those??
July 24, 201313 yr Don't forget those great bagel places along Dempster Road in Skokie. Speaking of Detroit, public works retirees only bring in $19,000 a year average; police/firefighter retirees only realize on average $30,500 annually. That ain't a whole lot, especially when there's no Social Security to supplement. So the problem, at least in Detroit, ain't exorbitant pensions. It's lack of a tax base to pay for these ordinary pension plans. Lol I know where you got these statistics. Its a misleading stat. It counts partial retirees as a part of the average. There are something like 98 cops who make over 90k in pension benefits. I can give you the list if you want of each pension list. There are 42 different union contracts tied to the city of Detroit . Also you ignore that there are 2x as many people collecting pensions in the city compared to those working in the private sector. You won't win this argument based on facts. Pensions are a major issue to the problem.
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