I'll be your Huckleberry

 

 

Mayfield would have defeated NCC and Central would have won by 2-3 TD's if not more.

 

You seriously want to compare Central's schedule and NCC's? Let's focus on Non-District

 

New Cath

Dixie Heights (win) : 3-8

Archbishop McNicholas (loss): 7-4

Campbell County (blowout loss): 7-5

Simon Kenton (Loss): 9-4

Holmes (loss): 6-5

Beechwood (blowout win): 9-5

 

 

Central

Manual (Blowout win):4-7

Evansville Reitz (Blowout win): 9-4

DeSales (win): 9-5

Ballard (win): 9-4

Western (Blowout win): 7-6

St. Xavier (loss): 8-5

PRP (loss): 14-1

 

 

Central not only played an exponentially more difficult schedule.. they faired exponentially better against it.

 

For your other points:

 

"Dont forget they had to go on the road and beat a very good somerset team."

The same Somerset who lost at home 24-13 to 3A Breathitt County (who were proven to be a pretender and not a contender)? The same Somerset who narrowly defeated a second tier 1A Hazard at home 17-9? I agree that outside of the Beechwood shelling (a Beechwood team who was dominated in a similar fashion by Mayfield), that somerset was NCC's signature win.. but let's not make the Jumpers into a juggernaut when they may not have even been a Top 7 team in 3A.

 

"Sure the score was close against Caldwell, NCC was banged up and playing almost every kid both ways on a 70 degree day in December and with Caldwell two platooning its kids and a few turnovers, helped keep it close"

- Injuries accumulate over 15 games..it doesn't take away from my assessment. As stated, the NCC team I saw would have been physically dominated by a Central team with superior depth and players only going one way had they played that same day.

 

I ask you, find another 1A or 2A school that played a tougher schedule than NCC in 2012.

Mayfield:

@ 5A Warren Central (loss)- The 3rd best 5A team in the State

vs. 4A MAdisonville-North Hopkins (blowout win)

vs. 3A Paducah Tilghman (Blowout win)

@ 2A Murray (blowout win)- Dominating win against a team who was easily a Top 5 2A team

@ 5A Graves County (blowout win)

@ 6A Marshall County (blowout win)

vs. 2A Caldwell County (blowout win)

 

I will give NewCath the slightly tougher schedule nod.. but whereas NewCath stumbled to 2 wins against teams a combined 12-13... Mayfield dominated everyone on their schedule with the exception of a Warren Central team who was the best team either squad faced.

 

"With that being said, somerset and Caldwell both were very capable of winning a championship in 1A, 2A or 3A title last season."

 

-Just no... as already mentioned a Breathitt County team that was essentially a one man show and who got absolutely seal clubbed against Belfry beat Somerset on their home field by 2 TD's... and a Hazard team who probably wouldnt have been able to stay withing 5 TD's of Mayfield gave the Jumpers all they wanted.

 

You also conveniently forget Caldwell County played Mayfield.. they lost 48-7. One of Caldwell's other losses was to 3A Trigg County. Trigg County wasn't even a Top 10 team in their class...probably not even Top 15. I will emphatically state that neither team would have had a legitimate shot at winning 1A and 3A. Somerset would have been competitive against Mayfield, but would not have advanced out of their region in 3A.

"You make my point about how weak that part of the state is in football if Caldwell was a year away from being there. If they would have played NCC in the semis, they don't make it lol."

 

Of course they don't make it.. NCC was the best team in 2A and the class on the whole was considerably weak.

Do some research and tell me since 2000, what team has been in the 1A or 2A state title game almost every year.......I think all but one year maybe.

 

- I acknowledge your point..but what does 2000 have to do with 2012 and 2013? Mayfield has been to 4 Straight Finals. Central has been to the Finals and WON 5 of the past 6 years... aren't these just as viable of stats?

 

Once again..for emphasis:

Newport Central Catholic, IMHO, was the weakest State Champion in all 6 classes by a good margin.

This is dumb as well. YOU CAN'T COMPARE REGULAR SEASON SCHEDULES. NewCath missed no less than 6 total starters for the first 4 games. One of them, being Thacker, was as important to NewCath's defense as almost any kid could possibly be to his team. Let's talk about where they were come playoff time. They then cruised through the playoffs before struggling vs Caldwell Co. If that was your only time seeing NewCath, then yeah, you say, "Man, they didn't look good." If you take the whole season and playoff march, you think "Man, they were a lot better than I'm giving them credit for." I would take NewCath-Mayfield. It would have been a great game.

This is dumb as well. YOU CAN'T COMPARE REGULAR SEASON SCHEDULES. NewCath missed no less than 6 total starters for the first 4 games. One of them, being Thacker, was as important to NewCath's defense as almost any kid could possibly be to his team. Let's talk about where they were come playoff time. They then cruised through the playoffs before struggling vs Caldwell Co. If that was your only time seeing NewCath, then yeah, you say, "Man, they didn't look good." If you take the whole season and playoff march, you think "Man, they were a lot better than I'm giving them credit for." I would take NewCath-Mayfield. It would have been a great game.

I don't see what is dumb about it. Is it perfect? No. Absolute? Of course not. However, if we are going to entertain making comparisons of the strength of teams, then what else are we to use than their performances on the field? It is the only tangible evidence we really have.

I'm glad I don't pay money to read these uneducated opinions......oh wait, I do.........

 

One time, watch some game film and then talk to me.

So, let me guess......you pilfered one of the boys passwords and got access to his Hudl account and got to watch you a little film and now you think you're Jon Gruden. Aren't you precious!

I don't see what is dumb about it. Is it perfect? No. Absolute? Of course not. However, if we are going to entertain making comparisons of the strength of teams, then what else are we to use than their performances on the field? It is the only tangible evidence we really have.

 

The end of the season. The playoff march included. You can't take a snap shot of the regular season and give as much weight to the first 4 games as the rest of the season, not if you consider team improvement over the course of the season.

This is dumb as well. YOU CAN'T COMPARE REGULAR SEASON SCHEDULES. NewCath missed no less than 6 total starters for the first 4 games. One of them, being Thacker, was as important to NewCath's defense as almost any kid could possibly be to his team. Let's talk about where they were come playoff time. They then cruised through the playoffs before struggling vs Caldwell Co. If that was your only time seeing NewCath, then yeah, you say, "Man, they didn't look good." If you take the whole season and playoff march, you think "Man, they were a lot better than I'm giving them credit for." I would take NewCath-Mayfield. It would have been a great game.

 

What tangible piece of evidence should we go off to judge NCC?

 

Aside form the numbers from the entire regular season.. a quality win against a quality Somerset team...but neither a dominating win nor an elite opponent... and a State Championship game where NCC struggled against a team they were heavily favored against?

 

Are we using the first three rounds of the playoffs against an over matched and very weak region? Are going off a District that is quite weak with the exception of Holy Cross who was down by all conventional wisdom? THE ONLY possible game that showed the capability of last year's NCC team aside from the start of the regular season and everything else outlined was their win over Beechwood...a Tiger team who was exposed often last year as a second tier 1A team behind Mayfield.

 

You don't think Mayfield would have coasted through that weak District and Region? You don't think Central would have? We are supposed to assume NCC was better than Mayfield and Central and judge based off their playoff run? The mighty Walton-Verona who lost to a 3 win Henry County and had ZERO quality wins. The 4-8 Holy Cross team with no quality wins and about 7 blowout defeats? The juggernaut 6-5 Gallatin County Wildcats who may very well have had one of the 5 weakest schedules in the State of Kentucky?

 

"This is dumb as well"

 

I will grant you the 9 point win against Somerset was a solid win, as I said it was probably the Breds' signature win outside of the Beechwood romp..but see above for my assessment of the Jumpers. Somerset would not have advanced out of their Region in 3A and Mayfield proved they could vanquish teams with a similar pedigree as the Jumpers.

 

Injuries or no injuries... you are what your record says when there is no other case that can be made. NewCath was a good team..the best 2A team... but painfully mundane compared to the other State Champions.

What tangible piece of evidence should we go off to judge NCC?

 

Aside form the numbers from the entire regular season.. a quality win against a quality Somerset team...but neither a dominating win nor an elite opponent... and a State Championship game where NCC struggled against a team they were heavily favored against?

 

Are we using the first three rounds of the playoffs against an over matched and very weak region? Are going off a District that is quite weak with the exception of Holy Cross who was down by all conventional wisdom? THE ONLY possible game that showed the capability of last year's NCC team aside from the start of the regular season and everything else outlined was their win over Beechwood...a Tiger team who was exposed often last year as a second tier 1A team behind Mayfield.

 

You don't think Mayfield would have coasted through that weak District and Region? You don't think Central would have? We are supposed to assume NCC was better than Mayfield and Central and judge based off their playoff run? The mighty Walton-Verona who lost to a 3 win Henry County and had ZERO quality wins. The 4-8 Holy Cross team with no quality wins and about 7 blowout defeats? The juggernaut 6-5 Gallatin County Wildcats who may very well have had one of the 5 weakest schedules in the State of Kentucky?

 

"This is dumb as well"

 

I will grant you the 9 point win against Somerset was a solid win, as I said it was probably the Breds' signature win outside of the Beechwood romp..but see above for my assessment of the Jumpers. Somerset would not have advanced out of their Region in 3A and Mayfield proved they could vanquish teams with a similar pedigree as the Jumpers.

 

Injuries or no injuries... you are what your record says when there is no other case that can be made. NewCath was a good team..the best 2A team... but painfully mundane compared to the other State Champions.

 

I agree to a point, however, I'm not going to weigh the 10 pt. win against Dixie the same as I would the win against Beechwood at the end of the year. (to add to your argument, HC was horrible last year, so that win wasn't spectacular by any stretch) Weak district or not, NewCath improved from a marginal team in the first 4 games, to a very good team. They played terribly in the quagmire in Covington, and Sindelar made them pay for not keeping contain in the state championship. That being said, the true argument was the phrase, "By a wide margin." I'm not going to claim that NewCath blows out either Central or Mayfield. I am, also, not going to concede that they get blown out either, as "by a wide margin" infers.

The end of the season. The playoff march included. You can't take a snap shot of the regular season and give as much weight to the first 4 games as the rest of the season, not if you consider team improvement over the course of the season.

Let's throw out the first 5 games entirely, because I agree with you in that they are meaningless as to how good a team is in November. If we limit our discussion to the last 5 regular season games and the 5 playoff games then we still have to look at game performances to make any comparisons of teams who never met on the field. Taking only that time frame into consideration, what about those performances would weigh on NCC's side of the ledger in a mythical matchup with Mayfield or Central?

The end of the season. The playoff march included. You can't take a snap shot of the regular season and give as much weight to the first 4 games as the rest of the season, not if you consider team improvement over the course of the season.

 

Here are the teams in that time frame save Beechwood and Somerset... is this really where we want to make our judgement as to the quality of NewCath's play and that they were on the same level as Mayfield and Central?

 

Best Wins/Key Losses:

 

Lloyd Memorial- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 3A Garrard County 35-14

Newport- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 1A Frankfort 30-9, Lost to 3A Breathitt County 65-29,

Holy Cross X2- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 5A Cooper 49-7, Lost to 5A Conner 67-21, Lost to 5A Holmes 50-0

Gallatin County- No Quality Wins/No Quality Losses

Walton-Verona- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 3A Henry County 27-24

I agree with the above posters that NCC has the toughest path to a repeat. It isn't necessarily about who they will face. It is about their own team. They lost some top players that I think will be very difficult to replace. Most importantly perhaps, they lost Eddie Eviston. That is a lot to replace.

Here are the teams in that time frame save Beechwood and Somerset... is this really where we want to make our judgement as to the quality of NewCath's play and that they were on the same level as Mayfield and Central?

 

Best Wins/Key Losses:

 

Lloyd Memorial- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 3A Garrard County 35-14

Newport- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 1A Frankfort 30-9, Lost to 3A Breathitt County 65-29,

Holy Cross X2- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 5A Cooper 49-7, Lost to 5A Conner 67-21, Lost to 5A Holmes 50-0

Gallatin County- No Quality Wins/No Quality Losses

Walton-Verona- No Quality Wins/ Lost to 3A Henry County 27-24

 

No, and that's exactly why I said that you can't compare scores and schedules. It s the way the team is playing. You know this as well as I do. If you flip the schedule, and put NewCath's first 4 opponents last, outside of CC, they win each game for certain. Their improvement was night and day.

 

How many games did you watch NewCath play? The state championship game?

You can't compare scores. You know that as well as I do. Every year people do this. It is about match-ups, not about score comparisons.

 

 

Mex

 

It makes a better argument than the guy your defending's rants. By all rational counts, NCC was the weakest champ last year but there is no shame in it. The trophy they got counts the same

As the biggest NewCath "cheerleader" on this site......I would say the Breds were the weakest Champion last year, but I don't care....there is a trophy up on the "hill" that says it all, 2012 KHSAA State Champs.

 

All the rest of this talk is "silliness"! :ohbrother:

As the biggest NewCath "cheerleader" on this site......I would say the Breds were the weakest Champion last year, but I don't care....there is a trophy up on the "hill" that says it all, 2012 KHSAA State Champs.

 

All the rest of this talk is "silliness"! :ohbrother:

 

 

Again the question was not "Who was the weakest state champ last year?" The question was "Who has the toughest road?"

 

No one seems to be answering the question and supporting it with this year in mind. If we want to examine NCC who in their "road" is causing the most problems to a repeat? My contention is only one team can come out of the other side of the bracket by rule and if that team is Caldwell County then we can speculate the will be pretty good. What if they do not make it to the Final? Who else is there that is legit this year?

In NCC's side of the bracket their best competition is likely Somerset again. Anyone else? Is Walton ready to take that step up? Is anyone in the district ready? So while NCC might not be favored to repeat how many teams would you put them in jeopardy of losing to at the end of next season? Two? Three?

Now look at the other classes. How many teams would Trinity be in jeopardy of losing to? Start at the district level and then go thru the Region and State. Is it Two? Three?

Agree...NCC horses have left the barn- although 2A is probably weakest overall class...

Again the question was not "Who was the weakest state champ last year?" The question was "Who has the toughest road?"

 

No one seems to be answering the question and supporting it with this year in mind. If we want to examine NCC who in their "road" is causing the most problems to a repeat? My contention is only one team can come out of the other side of the bracket by rule and if that team is Caldwell County then we can speculate the will be pretty good. What if they do not make it to the Final? Who else is there that is legit this year?

In NCC's side of the bracket their best competition is likely Somerset again. Anyone else? Is Walton ready to take that step up? Is anyone in the district ready? So while NCC might not be favored to repeat how many teams would you put them in jeopardy of losing to at the end of next season? Two? Three?

Now look at the other classes. How many teams would Trinity be in jeopardy of losing to? Start at the district level and then go thru the Region and State. Is it Two? Three?

 

Depends on how you look at it. How you explain it again, you basically will only run up against 2 teams equal to, or better, than you, then you like those chances, obviously. How I see it is that, these state champs have proven to consistently be one of the top 3 teams in their class for the last five years running. All of them will run into the same problem. Name 2 teams better than Trinity?

 

Now, if we go by depth of the class, then NewCath has an easier route of getting to Somerset, than Somerset has to getting to NewCath. On the other side, it will be between Caldwell,Owensboro Catholic, or Murray. If NewCath gets past Somerset, they only have to play one of those three. However, Caldwell is the most talented of all of the teams, so to win that game is more daunting for any of the other state champs (once they make it to the finals).