July 23, 201214 yr Report: Reds nixed Ondrusek-for-Victorino deal | Unsportsmanlike Conduct From Doc: The interest in Pierre and Victorino is still there, though. One Reds insider said a straight-up Ondrusek-for-Victorino deal was nixed by The Club. Would you have done that? Me, too. In less than a heartbeat. You have a chance to win something, you win it. Victorino is having a down year, but he’s a good player who could bat either first or second. Maybe a scenery change would ignite him. He’s also a decent outfielder.”
July 23, 201214 yr Author DKnobler @DKnobler Victorino has a right elbow contusion, Phillies say. He was hit by pitch he swung at (while striking out)
July 24, 201214 yr I seen this earlier and I dont really care if Victorino is having a bad year I would have done it in a second...Victorino has plus speed is good defensively and has pretty good switch hitting power that would make him dangerous in GABP...I love the Big O but I think Hoover can replace most of his production or at least come up and slide Simon into the O's role...Masset should also be back at some point... I kind of had a hard time believing this rumor had any legs to it though...
July 24, 201214 yr I'd rather keep Ondrusek at this point. He's finding his stride this year, and the trade would be for a 32 year old outfielder. I personally like having a younger outfield...we've already got Bruce (25), Heisey (27), Ludwick (38), Paul (27), and Stubbs (27). Assuming you deal Stubbs after picking up another outfielder, what are you looking for, another pitcher to replace Ondrusek?
July 24, 201214 yr That is a tough deal to pass on, but Victorino is struggling this year while our outfielders seem to have turned a corner. Over the past 30 days, Ludwick is hitting .280 with 6 HR and has the best OPS on the team (including Votto). Heisey is hitting .304 with a .373 OBP over the past 30 days. Even Stubbs is showing a little life, hitting .250 with a .308 OBP since the All Star break. And while those aren't great numbers for Stubbs, Victorino is hitting .253 with a .316 OBP this season.
July 24, 201214 yr That is a tough deal to pass on, but Victorino is struggling this year while our outfielders seem to have turned a corner. Over the past 30 days, Ludwick is hitting .280 with 6 HR and has the best OPS on the team (including Votto). Heisey is hitting .304 with a .373 OBP over the past 30 days. Even Stubbs is showing a little life, hitting .250 with a .308 OBP since the All Star break. And while those aren't great numbers for Stubbs, Victorino is hitting .253 with a .316 OBP this season. The difference is Victorino has done that all year, Stubbs has only hit that well for a little over a week now, which .250 is nothing to brag about...We all know more likely than not that Stubbs isn't going to hit .250 the rest of the year and if he does that's great but if Stubbs hits. 250 when he is on a hot streak and Victorino hits .250 when he is in a slump I would have to say Victorino has a lot more upside there for increased production especially considering he has actually produced in the past... Since Victorino's low point this season on April 30th where he was hitting only .228, he has hit .261/.329 with 13 Doubles, 5 Triples, 4 HRs, 30 RBIs, 14 SBs and 27 BBs to 35 Ks...He has outproduced Stubbs in every category without even including the month of April and he has the same amount of BBs and 60 less K's as well as playing better Defense...
July 24, 201214 yr Victorino has been a solid player in his career, albeit one that always got a little more credit than he should have during the Phillies' run. Now he is 31 and in decline, and his numbers show it. The defensive metrics I've seen this season don't rate him all that highly, either. If the Phillies thought he could bounce back, they wouldn't be offering him around.
July 24, 201214 yr The difference is Victorino has done that all year, Stubbs has only hit that well for a little over a week now, which .250 is nothing to brag about...We all know more likely than not that Stubbs isn't going to hit .250 the rest of the year and if he does that's great but if Stubbs hits. 250 when he is on a hot streak and Victorino hits .250 when he is in a slump I would have to say Victorino has a lot more upside there for increased production especially considering he has actually produced in the past... Since Victorino's low point this season on April 30th where he was hitting only .228, he has hit .261/.329 with 13 Doubles, 5 Triples, 4 HRs, 30 RBIs, 14 SBs and 27 BBs to 35 Ks...He has outproduced Stubbs in every category without even including the month of April and he has the same amount of BBs and 60 less K's as well as playing better Defense... So you're going to give up a key bullpen piece from the past 3 years for someone who isn't much all that much of an upgrade, makes much more money, and is a FA at the end of the year? No thanks...
July 24, 201214 yr Author Victorino has been a solid player in his career, albeit one that always got a little more credit than he should have during the Phillies' run. Now he is 31 and in decline, and his numbers show it. The defensive metrics I've seen this season don't rate him all that highly, either. If the Phillies thought he could bounce back, they wouldn't be offering him around. I agree, not a fan of trying to get him at all.
July 24, 201214 yr Thank God they didn't make that deal. I'd like Victorino in a Reds uniform, but I'm not screwing with the best bullpen in baseball for anyone short of a superstar.
July 24, 201214 yr Thank God they didn't make that deal. I'd like Victorino in a Reds uniform, but I'm not screwing with the best bullpen in baseball for anyone short of a superstar. :thumb: Agreed. The Reds pitching has gotten them where they are today. Keep their current pitching staff in place would be their best move, IMO. If they can stay healthy they will be a very tough out in the playoffs.
July 24, 201214 yr :thumb: Agreed. The Reds pitching has gotten them where they are today. Keep their current pitching staff in place would be their best move, IMO. If they can stay healthy they will be a very tough out in the playoffs. Let's wait till they get there first.
July 24, 201214 yr I like the Big O and he is one of the best when on, but I don't think it would be that hard to replace him...I'm just throwing this out there...The Big O pitched scoreless baseball in his first 15.1 IP this year, he gave up 8 Hits, walked 7, struck out 11 and hitters were hitting .154/.254 against him...Since his scoreless streak he has 21.1 IP, he has given up 21 Hits, walked 12, struck out 14, his ERA is 4.64 and hitters are hitting .263/.366 against him... Alfred Simon in his first 15.2 IP this year gave up 18 Hits, walked 4, struck out 17, his ERA was 2.30 and hitters were hitting .290/.357 against him...Since then he has 21.1 IP, he has given up 18 Hits, walked 9 and struck out 18, his ERA is 0.84 and hitters are hitting .228/.307 against him... Sam Lecure in his first 16.1 IP this year gave up 16 Hits, walked 9, struck out 17, his ERA was 4.41 and hitters were hitting .258/.352 against him...Since then he has 19 IP and has given up 15 Hits, walked 8, struck out 19, his ERA is 2.84 and hitters are hitting .221/.303 against him... JJ Hoover in his first 15.2 IP this year gave up 9 Hits, walked 6, struck out 15, his ERA was 2.87 and hitters were hitting .167/.246 against him...In AAA he has pitched 24.1 Innings with 8 walks, 34 strikeouts, 6 saves and a ERA of 1.48... Donnie Joseph has put together a nice season between AA and AAA, he is a lefty but can get righties and lefties out... Is it possible that the Big O's role could easily be replaced by sliding Simon there and bringing up Hoover to replace Simon as a long man?...Or could LeCure move into the Big O's role and keep Simon where he is and bring up Hoover to fill LeCure's current role?...Or could Hoover just slide right in for the Big O and be just as successful?...I think the Reds bullpen depth is a strength of theirs right now and you have to give up something to get something, me personally would rather give up the Big O in a deal for someone than give up 2 or 3 prospects...Nick Masset may very well return at some point as well...
July 24, 201214 yr Victorino has been a solid player in his career, albeit one that always got a little more credit than he should have during the Phillies' run. Now he is 31 and in decline, and his numbers show it. The defensive metrics I've seen this season don't rate him all that highly, either. If the Phillies thought he could bounce back, they wouldn't be offering him around. They are shopping him around because he will be a free agent.
July 24, 201214 yr They are shopping him around because he will be a free agent.If they really wanted him back and thought he would bounce back, they wouldn't be shopping him.
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