What I find so funny about political threads....Other than the 3 foreign policy issues you listed, I consider everything you listed as his biggest blunders. :lol: Crazy how two people can view the same things so drastically differently.

Agreed. And the 3 foreign policy issues I don't really given him a gold star on. He failed in his campaign promises on Iraq, Afghanistan is still a mess, and OBL being dead has little to do with who was in office. Did he give the order, yes. Who wouldn't have. Show me what the POTUS did directly to lead us to finding OBL. The intelligence community deserves all the credit there. And Seal Team 6 executed the plan. The President sat in a room in the white house. He no more killed OBL then I did. Yes, I applaud him for continuing the focus but his credit ends there.

 

The rest of the crap on 2HC's list are all colossal failures, period.

 

At the end of the day this thread is an exercise in futility. I could have listed who each poster would vote for before anyone responded with exception of 2 or 3.

Agreed. And the 3 foreign policy issues I don't really given him a gold star on. He failed in his campaign promises on Iraq, Afghanistan is still a mess, and OBL being dead has little to do with who was in office. Did he give the order, yes. Who wouldn't have. Show me what the POTUS did directly to lead us to finding OBL. The intelligence community deserves all the credit there. And Seal Team 6 executed the plan. The President sat in a room in the white house. He no more killed OBL then I did. Yes, I applaud him for continuing the focus but his credit ends there.

 

The rest of the crap on 2HC's list are all colossal failures, period.

 

At the end of the day this thread is an exercise in futility. I could have listed who each poster would vote for before anyone responded with exception of 2 or 3.

 

So I take it we can count on you to post in the Why I Will Vote for Romney thread?

Some pay into the system, and some want the system to provide for them...from cradle to grave.

 

Do you have a link to support your assertion of anyone wanting the system to provide for them from cradle to grave?

^ There was that one woman.

So I take it we can count on you to post in the Why I Will Vote for Romney thread?

 

Interesting dynamic working here.

 

I started the "Why I Will Vote For Romney" thread to give our membership the opportunity to state their case in a more appropriate venue. However, with a couple of exceptions (UKMF comes to mind), all the action has teken place here.

 

Not surprisingly, this is as much of a bash Obama thread as it is a why I will vote for Obama thread. It will be instructive to see how the other thread matures.

I can say for once I tried to be civilized and not bash Pres. Obama, just wanted to know what otheres saw in him that I didnt see. was a good topic but yes it turned into a bash thread, unintended by me.

 

I did learn a few things form PP and others. Thanks

 

I do like the environmental aspects of Obama and every Dem. I always felt they cared more for the Environmetn than did Repubs.

I agreed with a lot of things Obama stood for in 2008 and disagreed with quite a bit as well. On the things I agreed with him he hasn't lived up to his promises or his stated beliefs. He's worked very tepidly to support equality and he's actually been as conservative or more than his predecessor on civil liberties, namely the so called "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror" that have more or less done away with the 4th Amendment and are chipping away at the rest.

 

I agreed with him on the need to work on the health care system in this country. It's a disaster that provides sub-par care for an incredibly bloated expense. I think the health care law that was passed and that he signed is both a tepid attempt at a solution and represents a flawed compromise to get it done (I'm not a fan of the individual mandate, which was basically the way to get the insurance lobby on board). But, I find the effort commendable, if not ideal. I also think from the policy standpoint that he, like any president, is at the mercy of Congress for what they can accomplish. I can't blame him for Republican intransigence since their takeover of the House, but I think Obama has been far too passive in dealing with them up to this point. His approach of staying above the fray or being aloof from Congressional disputes hasn't been effective. I don't necessarily want to see a firebrand in office, but he could use to be more forceful.

 

On the economy I'm not sure what he could do differently. I constantly hear that "he's ruining the economy" or that we need a candidate who can "fix the economy," but I haven't seen any proposed solutions that are any different than the policies followed by Bush and Obama. I think people tend to think the president has far more control over economic matters than they do in reality, where they are far more beholden to the natural ebbs and flows of the business cycle. We've seen tremendous periods of economic success under both "high" and "low" income tax rates and varying levels of regulation. The Keynesian crowd and the monetarists have both put the pedal to the floor since the economic collapse in 2007 to little or no avail. And these are all the "solutions" I've seen being proposed. I think the most important policy vis-a-vis the economy is helping people stay afloat until the cycle turns around. So, while I wish the economy would be doing a lot better, I've no reason to believe another president would have any better success.

 

On foreign policy he's had some good moments and some bad. He appears to be a more skilled diplomat than his predecessor, but for the most part has continued the basic structure of his predecessor. With the exception of the move toward withdraw in Iraq and the hopeful winding down of Afghanistan, not much has changed outside of tone and a greater willingness toward cooperation.

 

In sum, Obama has been an okay president in my eyes, but far from ideal. Thus, I'm not ecstatic about supporting Obama this year. The problem is that options are limited. His current competitor would be even worse on the issues I've criticized Obama for, so I can't vote for him in good conscious. Thankfully, Gary Johnson appears to be providing me with a competent and intelligent alternative to them so long as my state remains noncompetitive.

Edited May 4, 201214 yr by Habib

Some pay into the system, and some want the system to provide for them...from cradle to grave.

 

I am trying to figure out how you decided that you opinions of the achievements (or mistakes) of the Obama administration depends on whether you are a giver or a taker. Pretty broad brush that you use there. I have been a producing member of society for about 48 years now. Don't plan to stop anytime soon. During that time I suspect I have contributed less to society than some on this board. I also suspect I have contributed more than most. I think that President Obama has done a great job. That doesn't make me a giver or a taker. You deciding that the president's supporters are "takers" does cause me to question the quality of your analysis.

SN - My friend who just passed away who did not go to the doctor because he was working poor and may have been able to catch the cancer that ate away his liver. I do not want to live in a world where the lack of insurance and therefore lack of preventative care allow my friends to suffer a die. President Obama is my best HOPE of changing that system.

 

I am sorry about your friend. I have insurance, and I can't/won't afford preventive care. You are talking about free health care.

I can say for once I tried to be civilized and not bash Pres. Obama, just wanted to know what otheres saw in him that I didnt see. was a good topic but yes it turned into a bash thread, unintended by me.

 

I did learn a few things form PP and others. Thanks

 

I do like the environmental aspects of Obama and every Dem. I always felt they cared more for the Environmetn than did Repubs.

 

 

This may be the first post you have made that I have 'liked'. Nice post.

Question for Obama voters: How dismal does the state of the union have to be before you would vote for someone else ?

Question for Obama voters: How dismal does the state of the union have to be before you would vote for someone else ?

 

That is a tough question to answer. I am more concerned with the direction. In my mind there is zero question that the direction today is far better than it was on January 20, 2009. It isn't where I want it to be, but it is headed in the right direction. I suppose that if I could be convinced that someone new could make things move even faster, then I might vote for that person. Mitt Romney is not that guy. If you believe what he says, he will take us back to the Bush years as fast as he can, only worse. I don't believe he would be as bad as the things he says, but I can't see much sense in voting for Romney in the belief that he won't do what he says.

Question for Obama voters: How dismal does the state of the union have to be before you would vote for someone else ?

 

I would have to be worse off than I was when elected. I am in much better shape today than I was four years ago and I am also a Union employee so that goes along into my allegiance for Obama as well.

Question for Obama voters: How dismal does the state of the union have to be before you would vote for someone else ?

 

Worse than in January 2009, with little light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Fortunately, that's not the case.

Worse than in January 2009, with little light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Fortunately, that's not the case.

8.5 percent unemployment in 2009.. About the same as now plus trillions more in debt.. Plus it will cost trillions more to sustain Obamas policies with no means to address the debt.. What do you consider the light at the end??