offside

Oh, he's been caught. Regional final against Trinity 4 or 5 years ago. Our line judge called it against them and he bet us a steak from Ruth's Chris that it wouldn't be on the film. Of course, he never sent us a copy of the film--or bought the steaks. Like I said, rascal.

I rather doubt that Coach Redman knew that it was an illegal play as he drew it up. Heck, he probably thought it was a brilliant idea. So I don't think it's cheating in any way. It's up to the officials to penalize fouls; they just missed a couple on this play:ohbrother:. And the aw-shucks, shoulder shrug description of the play is hilarious. He's a classic rascal; one of my all-time favorites.

YES! 7-2-4...A snap shall be such that the ball immediately leaves the hand or hands of the snapper and touches a backfield player or the ground before it touches an A lineman. That was not a legal snap.

That is not in the rules book.

For a snap to be legal, the ball must touch a backfield player or the ground before it is touched by a lineman. Otherwise, it's an illegal snap, dead ball foul.

I'd sure like to see this play on film! Did a backfield player (QB or RB) ever touch the ball? Did the ball ever touch the ground? If either of those 2 things happened, it was a legal play. But then...since the snapper was wearing #87, were there 5 other linemen numbered 50 - 79? And as always, it's pretty easy for me to ref a game sitting at my keyboard. It's a tad more difficult in real time.

We're working on it, one meeting at a time.

Here's my philosophy: It is LEGAL for offensive linemen to use his hands or arms to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold an opponent, so long as there is no RESTRICTION of the opponent. You can see a "hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold" on every play. That's just part of blocking. It's the RESTRICTION that the officials need to do a better job of judging. If the restriction is slight, it's nothing. Only if the restriction keeps the defender from directly making a tackle should holding be considered. The problem, as we all know, is there are a few refs out there (at all levels) who like to sling a flag at the sight of a little jersey grabbing. THAT makes us inconsistent.

I read a lot of game threads with "they missed a lot of holding calls" comments. Those people don't realize it, but what they're really saying is "our guys were getting blocked and we're sore that the ref's didn't give us some charity flags". Thanks for the kind words, by the way.

Restriction and proximity to the ball carrier are the two important elements of holding. If a defender is "grabbed", the ball carrier must be in the immidiate vicinity of the defender, and that grabbing must be so restrictive that it prevents the defender from making a tackle for the action to be deemed holding. Otherwise, it's just grabbing (which is not a foul). I've called holding 5 times in 15 years.

There is no specific rules book coverage. The referee will ask game management to fix the problem, if possible.

It's a correct enforcement. And you've got the rest of it backwards, too. Rule 8-2-2...If during a touchdown-scoring play, the opponent of the scoring team commits a foul other than unsportsmanlike, the scoring team may accept the results of the play and have a penalty enforced from the succeeding spot or may choose to have foul enforced on the subsequent kickoff.

Incidental grasping of the facemask is still a 5 yard penalty in HS football. Grasping and turning, pulling or twisting the facemask is a 15 yard penalty. (There is no longer a 5 yard FM foul in college football.)

It's a judgment call based on the definition of a "catch". Your question is based on an NCAA game, but since this is a HS forum and the basics are the same, here's the NFHS definition of what is a catch: Rule 2-4-1...A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds... I didn't see the play (I was being booed elsewhere), but it sounds like the official judged that the receiver did not "possess" or "catch" the ball before his knee hit out of bounds. The NCAA rules also includes the phrase "in his firm grasp" within the definition of catch and "when in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed".

1. Rule 3-1-3...a period or periods may be shortened...by agreement of the opposing coaches and the referee. (Refs ain't gonna argue with a quick clock in a JV game, sorry.) 2. JV games are a great opportunity for young players, young coaches and young refs to get game experience. Mistakes happen with all involved. Please don't disparage players, coaches or refs at JV games. 3. Please post any question for the refs at any time. THERE ARE MANY OF US LURKING ABOUT AT ALL TIMES! WE ARE FALLING OVER OURSELVES FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK UP THE ANSWER AND POST IT FOR YOU ON BGP. IF YOU POST IT, WE WILL ANSWER!

Eh, I think they were probably clueless. And, as you probably already know, I'm the biggest ref-apologist you will ever meet. :walk: But "playing till the whistle blows" is becoming an antiquated philosophy. I'm a bit ashamed that the refs in this game didn't hold up their end of that agreement.

In fairness to you coach, I think it was a bad call by the officials. In most cases, I do not advocate the philosophy of "playing till the whistle blows". The game has changed, and I think "playing till the whistle" is used as an excuse for a lack of awareness far too much. But in this case, well, they could've tackled the guy.

I think the video shows that it's close enough that the officials should have blown the whistle. But they didn't. That tells me that they saw it differently. My initial reaction was that it was a bad call; but after a few rewinds, maybe the defense celebrated prematurely. Right or wrong, it was still a cheap way to win a game.

We should either have false start against the offense or encroachment against the defense. If we can't figure out who jumped first, we should call false start on the offense. But I suppose there could be some strange reason why they decided it was more fair to offset the fouls. :idunno: By the way, offside (singular, no "s" on the end) is an NCAA and NFL foul against the defense. It's not in the highschool rulebook. If you hear anybody use the term at a highschool game, please correct them.

Rule 2-28-1...The neutral zone is the space between...the two scrimmage lines during a scrimmage down. Basically, it's the length of the football. The offensive line of scrimmage is the point of the ball nearest their goal line, and the defensive line of scrimmage is at the other point of the ball. But it can be expanded... Rule 2-28-2...The neutral zone may be expanded following the snap up to a maximum of 2 yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage, in the field of play, during any scrimmage down. The neutral zone is "expanded" to allow an offensive player to block a defender and drive him up to 2 yards beyond his line of scrimmage. It also allows a defender to block the kick within that 2 yard belt without it being considered "touching". But it doesn't sound like the expanded neutral zone is a factor because "such touching is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball" whether within the expanded neutral zone or not. So, if the defender was not being blocked behind his line of scrimmage (and the touching was not an attempt to block the kick within the expanded neutral zone) and the ball touched him, K can gain possession.

:ohbrother: We will have extra ball-tossing practice after our next officials meeting. Get well soon Chelsea, and thank you very much for showing the boys how to be tough!

I'm unable to copy/paste the Running Clock Memo and Notes, but it's also available on the KHSAA website http://www.khsaa.org/football/general.html

This is available on the KHSAA website http://www.khsaa.org/football/general.html GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR FOOTBALL CLOCK OPERATORS A. The clock operator should report to the officials’ dressing room at the stadium at least one hour before game time for the following purposes. 1. To synchronize timer’s watch with official game time as established by the official responsible for timing. 2. To advise officials whether the clock operator will be in the press box or on the sideline. Determine procedure for communication with timer and check this procedure prior to the game. 3. To discuss coordination of starting, stopping and adjusting the clock in accordance with the playing rules. B. The field clock is normally started 30 minutes before game time. The halftime intermission will start on the referee’s signal when the players and officials leave the field. All pregame and halftime activities will be synchronized with the official game clock. The mandatory three-minute warm-up period will be put on the clock after the intermission time has elapsed and shall be started immediately. C. The clock operator shall have an extra stopwatch available. In case of failure of the game clock, the clock operator shall immediately contact the officials, giving them the correct data regarding the official time. The official responsible for timing will then pick up the correct game time on the stopwatch. If the field clock becomes inoperative and is subsequently repaired, it will not be used again until the next period or when the referee determines it is operational. The public-address announcer will indicate the field clock will not be official until the malfunction is corrected and a subsequent announcement is made on the public-address system. D. Game Procedures: 1. The clock operator is an integral member of the officiating crew and game administration. Unfair advantages occur when the game clock is not started correctly by rule. Great care must be exercised to see that no time lag occurs in starting or stopping the clock. 2. On all free kicks, the nearest official(s) will signal the legal touching of the ball by indicating that the clock should start. 3. Any official may signal a time-out; therefore, the operator should be alert to stop the clock. 4. The incompletion signal will stop the clock. Note: On plays near the out-of-bounds line and in advance of the line to gain, an official may give a winding signal to indicate the ball is inbounds and follow it by a stopthe- clock signal for an apparent first down. Be alert for both signals. 5. The clock operator will automatically stop the clock following a touchdown, field goal, touchback or safety after the appropriate scoring signal has been made. 6. After the clock has been stopped, the referee will start it again on the referee’s start-the-clock signal and if no such signal is given, the operator will start the clock on the snap without the signal from the referee. 7. The referee may start the clock again in certain instances before the ready-for-play signal. 8. The try is not a timed down. 9. There are instances when a period shall be extended by an untimed down. During these extensions, leave the clock at :00. Do not reset the clock for the next period until the referee declares the period over by facing the press box and holding the ball overhead. 10. Each state association may decide whether or not to utilize a running clock in certain situations, and the procedures for those situations. 09 ®

That's incorrect. Frequently, the clock will start on the ready for play signal after a foul. (I presumed you knew this and did not type all of 3-4-2). Rule 3-4-2...The clock shall start with the ready for play... b. Because the ball has become dead following any foul provided: 1. There has been no charged time out during the dead ball interval. 2. The down is not an extension of a period or try. 3. The action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped.

#1. My advice to you is for you to hope that the whitehat knows rule 3-4-3 as well as you do (I will provide it to you below). If he forgets to wind it and you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it's supposed to run, RUN IT. (Especially if another official is winding it). We can always fix it by adding more time to the clock if you're wrong; but it's a lot harder to fix it the other way. #2. It's not correct, but you can't do anything about this as a clock keeper. The referee should apply Rule 3-4-6...When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped. Please don't interject yourself into this one. Print this out and keep it in the pressbox with you: Rule 3-4-2...The clock shall start with the ready-for-play signal on a down beginning with a snap if the clock was stopped for any reason other than specified in Rule 3-4-3 or an untimed down. Rule 3-4-3...The clock shall start with the snap or when any free kick is touched, other than first touching by K, if the clock was stopped because: a. The ball goes out of bounds. b. B is awarded a new series. (Turnover on downs, fumble recovery or interception). c. Either team is awarded a new series following a legal kick. d. The ball becomes dead behind the goal line. (Touchback). e. A legal or illegal pass is incomplete. f. A request for a charged or TV/radio time-out is granted. g. A period ends. h. A team attempts to consume time illegally. (Referee's call, not the clock keeper). i. The penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted.