offside

6-6-4...Any K player may catch or recover a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the neutral zone or the expanded neutral zone, provided such kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching. Such touching is ignored if it is caused by K pushing or blocking R into contact with the ball or it is caused by K legally batting or muffing the ball into R. Such catch or recovery by K beyond the neutral zone causes the ball to become dead. 5-1-3...a new series is awarded to: (f) The team in possession at the end of the down, if R is the first to touch a scrimmage kick while it is beyond the expanded neutral zone, unless a penalty is accepted for a non post-scrimmage kick foul which occurred before the kick ended. Punting team's ball, first and 10 at the spot of recovery. (Line to gain is irrelevant and the partial block of the kick in or behind the neutral zone is ignored). Clock starts on the snap because K was awarded a new series following a legal kick (3-4-3c).

C'mon, Clyde. I did not invent the "if in doubt..." principles.

No, there is no wording that prevents the action from being ruled a hold. My opinion is based on the runner being beyond the defender when restraint was demonstrated.

I assure you that my opinion is correct on the non-holding call. As to the "fumble": :deadhorse:

No offense taken. The replay clearly shows that it was a fumble. High school officials are simply not used to having multiple angles of instant replay and NFL commentators critiquing their work. Otherwise, they'd already be in a BCS college town most Friday nights. That's my only point.

I'd say that's a pretty sound philosophy. And of course I know that I'm defending a call that is disputable via replay. I've missed a few of those myself.:isurrender:

I think that play gets ruled a fumble in a highschool game less than 10% of the time--"If in doubt, the runner is down." We don't want any cheap fumbles. That's not to say that that philosophy is always correct, but we don't have IR to fall back on. In an Division 1 NCAA game, it's ruled a fumble because instant replay can correct the call--"If in doubt, the runner is not down." I agree with the no-call on the suspect hold. The runner was past the defender when the restriction occurred.

That's the way we want it called (or not called). A little jersey grabbing means nothing. Let 'em play. I thought it was a pretty well-officiated game. Remember, officials don't have the benefit of instant replay at this level and use very different "if in doubt" principles because of that fact. It's pretty easy to ref a football game from the comfort of the couch with the DVR remote in hand. I know, I do it too.

Is there a difference between your play and the one from the '53 Cotton Bowl? Why USC? What's the difference between Illegal Participation...9-6-3 or 9-6-4a, and UnfairActs...9-9-1? Are you sure a dead ball foul or awarding a score is correct? Is there a casebook play?

1953 Cotton Bowl, Rice v. Alabama: The Owls had beaten Texas, 18-13, in Austin, and smothered the Aggies, 34-7, in Houston. By the time the New Year's Day Cotton Bowl match with Alabama loomed, the Taylor, Texas, scatback was on a roll. Against the Tide, he struck early and often. The day's stats would show, in a 28-6 victory, that Maegle rolled to 265 yards in only eleven carries, scoring three times, still a Cotton Bowl record. But the carry of the day was one that will live in the annals of college football history. In the second quarter, with the Owls already up 7-0, they set up shop on their own five yard line. Maegle took a quick pitch, broke off-tackle, and headed for the sidelines. With nothing but daylight ahead, he was headed for a 95-yard touchdown run. On the 'Bama bench, Tommy Lewis, a reserve back, had had all he could take. Maegle was in the clear, at the Alabama 40, when Lewis burst off the bench to bring him down. Confusion reigned; the officials huddled. Coach Neely dashed across the field, challenging Tide coach Harold "Red" Drew. "Rayud, Rayud," he drawled, "what did yo boy think he was doin'?" Lewis moaned, "Coach, I was jus' so full of Ala-bahma." The officials awarded Rice the TD; the Owls won going away-- and both players later traveled to New York to tell about it on the Ed Sullivan show. Dickie Maegle later said he felt like Ed Sullivan treated him like the heel and Tommy Lewis like a hero. "Heck, I was the one who scored the touchdown!" he said. In any event, for years it was considered THE most famous play in college football history. And even with the demise of historical perspective by today's media and fans, it still ranks as one of the greatest -- and probably the most bizarre.

It would require very obvious intent to interfere, with the act having a material effect on the outcome of the game, in a situation similar to the referee awarding a score to the offended team for an unfair act.

Rule 8, Table 1: Point Values: Forfeited Game: Game score is: Offended Team: 1, Opponent: 0. But if offended team is ahead, the score stands.

Personal fouls do not carry an automatic first down in highschool. Encroachment on the defense is a dead ball foul in highschool; it is offside (not plural) in NCAA and the defender may get back out of the neutral zone prior to the snap to avoid a foul.

NFHS Rule Book: Rule 9 Section 2 SECTION 2 ILLEGAL USE OF HANDS AND HOLDING ART. 1 . . . An offensive player (except the runner) shall not: c. Use his hands, arms or legs to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold in an effort to restrain an opponent. Restraint is the key in all that mess. One could rephrase that passage to say that it is legal for the offensive player to "use his hands, arms or legs to hook, lock, clamp, grasp, encircle or hold" as long as there is no restraint. We hear it all the time: "THAT'S HOLDING!" when an offensive player grabs a fistfull of a defender's jersey. But that's not really holding unless there is restraint, and the restraint is such that it causes a defender (who is in the immediate vicinity of the runner or loose ball) to not be able to make a play on the ball or tackle the runner.

Sure, as long as "throwing the DB to the ground" doesn't result in a personal foul or holding penalty.

1. No, it is not legal for a defensive player to hold an eligible receiver on the line of scrimmage. 2. If the "bump" by the defense meets the definition of a legal block, the defender can contact the eligible receiver until the receiver is no longer a potential blocker.

We'll do both.

Over 1,000 views on a thread about rules questions? Brings a tear to of joy to my eye. As you can see by the responses to this thread, many good refs are also members of BGP. So, please keep the questions coming (some of us even use BGP as an excuse to open up the rules book to find the answers). I'm thinking of starting a thread about holding...

The defense may not initiate contact against an eligible receiver after he is no longer a potential blocker. Typically, that occurs when the eligible receiver has reached the same yardline as the defender. But, as in the case of a linebacker blowing up the drag route, if the eligible receiver isn't even looking at the defender he's also no longer a potential blocker.

The phrase "blow him up" has conotations of unnecessary roughness or targeting a defenseless player. Put another way, the offfensive player can be legally blocked by the defender, and/or the defender may contact him while attempting to catch, bat or recover the backward pass.

He is an eligible receiver by number (between 1-49, and 80-99) and position at the snap.

1. The defense may legally block an offensive player. It is also legal for the defense to tackle an offensive player who is believed to possess the ball (such as after a fake handoff). However, "tackling" the intended pitch man before he has the ball could/should result in defensive holding. A personal foul for targeting a defenseless player or a block below the waist is also possible. So, the key there is making a "legal block". 2. The defense may not initiate contact against an eligible receiver after he is no longer a potential blocker. Typically, that occurs when the eligible receiver has reached the same yardline as the defender. But, as in the case of a linebacker blowing up the drag route, if the eligible receiver isn't even looking at the defender he's also no longer a potential blocker. That's the abridged version.

Inadvertent whistle. The team in possession has the option of taking the result of the play at the spott of the runners progress where the play was blown dead, or replaying the down.

99% of the time, the wing officials will know whether forward progress will result in a first down or not without measuring. This is especially true in the last few years since the overall condition and markings on the fields have improved significantly. Without opening a can of worms here, we'll usualy start every series on the back edge of a yardline, so we know that we have to break the plane of the yardline 10 yards downfield for a first down. But, we ought to be running in there with purpose to get the actual spot if there's ever any doubt. And we will measure if there's any doubt, or if it is necessary to prove what we already know.

Its an old signal they used to have. Back when they used whistles.